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Old 7th August 2007, 10:06 AM   #1
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Default peerless midrange crossover

this is my second time typing this out.. i got a 'no valid forum' error

i bought some peerless drivers off ebay a long while ago and i absolutely love them

i recall the person i bought them from said they came out of some NHT bookshelf speakers or something
the cat numbers are 850443 (from denmark)
maybe you guys/girls can tell me more about these speakers?

okay.. the reason im posting is because i want to put some of these drivers in my cars front door

look here:
http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=12

i am trying to build a two-way setup and i need a crossover and tweeter recommendation

i can cut the low end with my cars headunit.. but i dont know where to cross these woofers over at
and i dont know what tweeters to use (obviously the tweeters frequency response needs to meet the crossover point)

can you guys/girls help me make this happen?

the woofers i have look like they have the same cone and dust cap the only difference i see visually is the shape of the screw area on the basket (round verse not so round?) and my speakers are magnetically shielded

a pre-made crossover would be easy
unless you can tell me what parts i need and i will need connect-the-dot instructions
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Old 15th January 2010, 05:19 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anwaypasible View Post
...peerless drivers...850443 (from denmark)
maybe you guys/girls can tell me more about these speakers?
...
look here:
http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=12
...
The link you posted is to Peerless HDS Nomex 6.5" woofers, not the 850433?

Anyway, Zaph has recently tested the 850433 woofers, results on his blog for now:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/blog.html

Click the image to open in full size.

Looks very nice, actually. Got yourself some good woofers there.
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Last edited by critofur; 15th January 2010 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 17th January 2010, 03:29 AM   #3
mavric is offline mavric  United States
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if you are using the cross over off the h/u, just use a simple high pass passive cross over for the tweeters( i call them sprinklers, tsss, tsss, tsss ) JK, if you are just using the radio with average 13watt, at 2.2 or 3.3 uf would be fine, if an amp is involved, would suggedt building or ordering from the manufature.
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Old 17th January 2010, 07:25 AM   #4
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i enjoy these woofers alright.. however they never made it to my vehicle.
they are in a junk box that i gutted and threw in something different.

unfortunately for me i let one of the woofers bottom-out one too many times while playing with my volume.
(probably has everything to do with the woofer in the same airspace as the 12inch woofer.
now one of them sounds gritty.

i bought some 3way crossovers and i lost the crossover frequencies
they are some cerwin vega 3way crossovers with a special fuse.. and the bad part is all the components are rather hidden so i cant see to reverse engineer the crossover based on the component values.
i emailed the seller because he/she deals with lots of audio products and has sold a bunch of cerwin vega crossovers since the date of my purchase.
i'm hoping there is a reply with some information that would help me rediscover the crossover points.

but yeah.. when i first got these woofers i was taken by the amount of depth my movies had.
i was especially happy that they were magnetically shielded so i could put them rather close to my crt television.

i've been wanting to build some cabinets that seperate the peerless woofers from the 12inch woofers.. but this project has had no funds within the last 3 years.

i have since wondered what the other peerless nomax drivers sound like.. especially the ones for sale at madisound.

its been a mess but i can certainly appreciate the upgrade i experienced when i swapped out the old 4 or 5 inch sealed back paper KLH midranges with the 5.25 inch peerless nomax woofers.

since then i have hooked up my receiver to the computer and used the computer's equalizer to flatten out the frequency response.
i've got a little 6inch subwoofer from the klipsch promedia 2.1 set to add a little umph and detail to the low end but my 2.1 system doesnt get down into the 20hz area like i'd like it to.

i have allowed stains and junk to accumulate.. but i rarely look the situation head-on.

i was kinda happy to see a message in my email that this post had been replied to.

hopefully some other people can enjoy the pleasure these peerless woofers bring.

i got excited about seeing some woofers for sale on that persons comcast homepage.. but then i seen the $80 minimum and put everything on pause again.

to say the least.. i have moved the cabinet with the gritty woofer far away from me (across the room) for now.

i blew a speaker in my grado sr60's too

i've got gritty speakers no matter if i use the cabinets or the headphones.
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Old 19th January 2010, 03:29 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anwaypasible View Post
...unfortunately for me i let one of the woofers bottom-out one too many times while playing with my volume.
(probably has everything to do with the woofer in the same airspace as the 12inch woofer. now one of them sounds gritty.
Yes, they definitely need some sort of separate box if they are mounted in the same enclosure with other different woofers. The end of the voice coil former must have gotten mashed and now is rubbing...

Quote:
I've been wanting to build some cabinets that seperate the peerless woofers from the 12inch woofers.. but this project has had no funds within the last 3 years.
Where do you live? Everywhere I've lived I occasionally see various pieces of old furniture left out by the garbage in the alley, or, in front of houses in places like Brooklyn where they don't have alleys and the garbage goes in the front... Anyway, even 1/4" (but 1/2" would be better) plywood from the back of some old drawers somebody threw out + some Elmer's white glue could be suitable to make a sealed box to separate the mid from the woofer. Use this program to find out how big it [the sub-enclosure] needs to be: WinISD Beta

There may not be enough spare room inside your current enclosure to make a seperate sub-enclosure for the Peerless woofer inside it [the volume left for the 12" woofer would probably be too small and it won't have as much bass]. In that case, you might want to try just sealing up the hole where the midwoofers go and mounting the Peerless woofer on top, right above the tweeter. Either in a sealed box, or, on an "open baffle".

Quote:
I have since wondered what the other peerless nomax drivers sound like.. especially the ones for sale at madisound. its been a mess but i can certainly appreciate the upgrade i experienced when i swapped out the old 4 or 5 inch sealed back paper KLH midranges with the 5.25 inch peerless nomax woofers.
It's Nomex, not nomax. So, which ones do you have - 850433 or 830875? You said you have 850433; those are not Nomex, the 830875 which you linked to are Nomex. Both are nice anyway.

Quote:
since then i have hooked up my receiver to the computer and used the computer's equalizer to flatten out the frequency response.
That will help, particularly since you're not using a crossover that's been properly designed for your particular drivers...


Can you take pictures and post them on the forum?
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Last edited by critofur; 19th January 2010 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 20th January 2010, 02:44 PM   #6
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they are the 850433
i thought the reason these woofers sounded so good was because of the uber light cones.
i will reconsider buying some peerless woofers if they have a heavier cone that hinders their performance.

i know there is wood in the garbage.. i only have a jigsaw and the 12's need a bigger box too.
i'm not gonna build a box for the mids without building a box for the woofers.
NOT WITH A JIGSAW I'M NOT.. too much effort when there are tools out there to make the job easiers and my cut seams more perfectly straight than i ever could with a jigsaw.

Click the image to open in full size.

the port is 3 inches and goes down to the bottom of the box with a slight angle.
i took the box diameters and inputted them into a calculator WITHOUT compensating for the displacement of the port.
i mushed in a bunch of polyfill to try and compensate for the difference.

the woofers look like BMB woofers but i have no idea who actually put them together.
the ebay listing said 60watts RMS.
i have a 100watt receiver and i figured they would move.. but the woofers arrived stiff as snot.

my poor peerless drivers are like passive radiators when the 12s do start to move.

i purchased an old-school shure es615 analyzer microphone and used the free version of trueRTA to flatten what the microphone picked up.
i bent the screen on my microphone a little bit from throwing the mic around while in its little bag.


i have a load more to say but i typed it once and my message was deleted because my ISP requested that i sign in again.. lost a bunch.
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Old 20th January 2010, 09:51 PM   #7
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so i have inputed speaker distance and speaker angle into the THX console included with my creative soundcard - made a soundstage
after i made the soundstage i took my shure microphone and the free version of trueRTA.
i got all the bars as equally flat as i could with the equalizer included with the creative soundcard.
then i used the bass boost in the THX console to boost frequency 28hz

i left the little 6.5inch subwoofer out of the calibration and have added it slowly until just capable of hearing it.

i am giggling a little bit because i think the overall sound seems a little mono-tone and lacks quiet depth.

i can tell the air is noisey.. because there is a lack of detail and dark depth all while sounding very breezy.

this apartment has poured concrete/porcelain tile with what looks like painted simulated wood paneling and a drywall or plaster ceiling.
i would like a DSP to cancel out some of the echos with some soundwave phase alterations.

the part where the ceiling meets the wall has a piece of paneling about 12inches in length (top to bottom) and it is fixed around 75% of the room.
~instead of the wall and ceiling meeting at a 90degree seem.. there is a pull out starting about 12inches from the ceiling and the angle is about 45degrees~

normal walls look like this
l
l
l____

and this one looks like
l
l
\
\___

my microphone doesnt have a calibration file other than some article from 1977
the tweeters are shouting at me sometimes when a vocalist pronounces anything ending with an S

sitting here typing this out and giving my fresh calibration a listen.. i can literally hear the room ECHO just a little itty bit.
(the vocals are long without an ending - a dampening is needed)

i can put up any fabric on the walls.. and i dont really believe in adding fabric to solve an echo problem.
i know the entire room can be broken down and all echos canceled by throwing out out-of-phase soundwaves.... thus using the hard surfaces as a positive characteristic that WILL keep all the details intact until the soundwave finally reaches my ears.

to my understanding, soft surfaces will absorb the soundwave and therefore alter the original soundwave that has left the speaker.

i suppose i have gone in the wrong direction with the DSP because now everything is louder at the same volume than it was prior to dialing in all the distance and angle measurments.

the room has lots of sound - no denying that
and the sound is better than a $300-$400 'complete system' from places like walmart or bestbuy.

i really often giggle because trying to find a subwoofer pre-built that has a box tuned for anything lower than something in the 30hz range is impossible at places like bestbuy.

there is definitely a presence of low distortion.. i dunno if that is harmonic or transient or scrappy jo bobs description for distortion.
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Old 20th January 2010, 10:08 PM   #8
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so while bitching and complaing about my overall sound coming across as mono-tone.. i see that creative's 24bit 'crystalizer' is designed to put emphasis on sharp sounds and transients.. i figure putting emphasis on transients is an excellent add-on to an already mono sounding characteristic.

the music sounds louder and more detailed with the crystalizer on
and to me this says one thing.. there is some kind of algorithm employed to get those details to my ears rather than getting lost in the echo of the room.
i could turn up the amplifier.. but that would just increase the soundwaves bouncing into eachother (at a greater force than before).
**conclusion**
24bit crystalizer helps adjusting timing OR amplifies details unheard without the feature enabled.


then i click the CMSS-3D feature that adds virtual speakers.
adding virtual speakers again brings sounds to my ears otherwise lost in the echo of the room.
with the CMSS-3D feature turned on, my soundstage has become a little wider AND louder.
**conclusion**
like the crystalizer feature.. the cmss-3D feature is adjusting timing OR amplifying details unheard without the feature enabled.

both features are turned on because they help the details reach my ears instead of getting lost in the echo of the room.

but honestly.. i want more DSP adjustments because there is some serious lack of depth in the overall sound.

sure it is better than sounding like paper.. but the sound is 'lite' instead of 'light'
even better would be 'black'

what distortion is it (if any SINGLE distortion with a name)
i say the sound goes from
paper
lite
light
black (with dips and peaks)
black (without dips and peaks)

i am currently at 'lite' and would like to align my soundwaves to get the beef needed to bring me to 'light'
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