New member with a question about horn loaded compression driver-type speakers...

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Hello all,
I'm so very glad to have found you all. I'm doing what some have called the "unthinkable" and decided to design and build my own HLCD speakers using a few very choice components.

My question relates to the prospect of wave shaping the sound with a fiberglass horn body. Other than consideration for the obvious principles of sound direction and reflection, what advice can you offer with respect to the shape, size and construction of this type of speaker?

My goal is to build a proprietary shape that will utilize the lower portion of my dash panels to function as an extension of the horn body itself, but the SPL could be so high in this application that it might be best if it were "French horned", as in a nautilus or spiral shape in order to internally dampen the standing waves. Would this type of design, aside from the difficulty of construction pose any immediate issues for sound quality? Would it be best to have them act as direct reflecting horns or would I benefit from utilizing a reflected audio wave path as in some of the very high-end studio monitors of the world?

With consideration for the fact that Image Dynamics and USD had such incredible success with sound quality competitions for a brief period, would there be a real-world benefit for a very choosy audio-head like myself in this design, or have cone-based speakers derived a comparable sound quality at this point and time that I'm not aware of?

Thanks so much and thanks for letting hang out with you folks. I hope that I'll be of some help to someone along the way too.

Michael
 
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Hi Michael. Sorry you didn't receive a response to this and to be honest I can't help either but it does sound like an interesting idea and I hope someone chimes in here. It's just not fair that you're so darn polite and no one has an answer for you. :smash:

So, start by filling us in a little more, ie:

What are you trying to achieve with the horn?

It it full range or...?

etcetera.
 
Well, here is a small suggestion:

Both Image Dynamics made several models and quality levels of compression horns. If I were you I'd check out some of their photos and specifications.

A lot of those were often used in competition and audiophile cars for improving stereo imaging and sound fidelity.

My pair was lower end, and had molded plastic horns, but the higher end units had some very neat shapes.

Also Audiobahn had some called ACH15 I think. Hard to find, never would have guessed they'd make some!

Check those brands for some ideas (mostly ID!)
 
Thanks Cal,
I am not too put off by the lack of responses. It's a rare idea indeed, so I was anticipating some lack of real-world experience with this type of driver's construction.

Marty,
I've owned the ID Comp2 horns and the Veritas designs. Both sounded very good and provided a very good value for the investment. However, now I'm into precision acoustics and that requires some special work to match the limitations of my interior. Overall, the ID horns were a bit too crisp for my ears, even with a PPI-230 eq to tune them in. They just had a few untamable peaks that simply cut right into my enjoyment.

The Veritas horns were far, far more accurate, but they rang like Big Ben in the upper mid-range area. Ultimately, they could be dialed in, but they never fit right and the fact that they were virtually impossible to blend into the interior made me think that I can do a better job on my own.

I have a very keep grasp of advanced acoustical design an I truly do love ALL kinds of music. But I'm a purist, as much as one can be anyway, and I like to hear music as it was produced, without coloration. I'm just trying to get a bearing on how many other people are as completely mental as I am.

I think that by coupling the dash to the horn body with a smooth, consistent roll off I should be able to create an extremely accurate driver housing with little if any imperfections. I'm specifically interested in the expansion ratios of different drivers as they are mounted in to different materials and how to effectively calculate for the shift in velocity as the mouth widens, and at which frequencies I can expect to get the widest peaks.

So, thanks so very much for the ideas, and please pass this along to people who might be of some help if you know of anyone who might be able to.

Thanks again,
Michael
 
Hi Michael. You obviously are a pretty intelligent guy, but venturing into "the road less traveled"!

Personally, after experimenting with placing component speakers on top of the dash (with excellent sound quality and imaging results!) I decided to almost forget floorboard/lower dash custom kick-panel mounted speakers and create custom fiberglass enclosures for small drivers on top of my dash.

The soundstage height and clarity in sound reproduction was so much better-finally I found it.

But of course the last horn set I was supposed to have were delivered to the wrong address by FedEx, and the receiving party wasn't man enough to notify me or FedEx. So I never even got to try higher quality horns. Still to this day I'm both sad and extremely angry...

Now if you'll excuse me I need to drive up the road and get an eyeful of the unkempt illegal aliens loitering in the gas station parking lot and really bringing the neighborhood down even further. Nice.

Good luck!
 
munkittrick I am curious if you ever did anything with this? I see you are in FL, I am as well and would like to try to do something like this as well. IF you are near by maybe we could work on this together.

Personally I think the easiest thing would be to to make a mold from an existing horn to make a copy then use that as a base line. From there you could modify the design all you want.
 
Actually, yes. I finished my first set a long, long time ago and have been trying to get a fine-tuned version for my own use. I've sold my three previous attempts on eBay with a pretty reasonable price. They do sound spectacular, but they are hard to dial in without a bit of EQ. I've been trying to find enough interest to build a short run of the latest set, but so far there are just too many skeptics. I'll check back again soon...
 
I've been trying to find enough interest to build a short run of the latest set, but so far there are just too many skeptics. I'll check back again soon...

Skeptical of performance or sales market? If you think the market is there, don't let performance skeptics keep you down. They'll be everywhere you turn.

I'd be interested in what you've done so far.
 
Never of sales, but people always question performance with anything that doesn't look, or feel like they expect. I'm building them for my own desire to create better sound, but I'll certainly consider making them available en masse if there are people who DEMAND better sound, the way I do.

I'm actually doing a final test on a new set on Tuesday. If all goes well, I'll do my best to get the info out to share with you guys.

Michael
 
Thunderstorm killed our router here, so I am not behind my own pc, but it is funny I found this thread.

Yes, I have 2 horn-loaded tweeters on my dashboard as of 2 weeks, and I found the same thing: I had to put -4dB notch wideband around 3000 Hz to get rid of the "whiplash" dynamics when you crank them up. I didn't expect to need some EQ on their lower end, but I want to have it measured later when it is finished.

I have a bunch of pics of the Hi-eff install, but I'm still working on the writeup some guys at a civil engineering forum asked about, not to mention trying for the umpteenth time to get an efficient folding pattern out of a 130L basshorn for the trunk. :rolleyes:

I used Beyma SMC 2012N or something like that, but not sure about the numbers.

Patrick Bateman has also some experience with custom made horn-loaded tweets on his dash. Check the Unity threads in the forum. He did a basshorn too, which I am trying to pry some tips from him.

You are not the only nut with horn-loaded tweets in his car. :D
 
It's good to know that I'm not alone. I'm presently trying to integrate a wide-float, cross-fire horn into my dash in the vest area of my windshield defroster. I fabricated a fiberglass horn body that followed the shape of the old vent duct and mounted the drivers on opposite ends aimed toward the center of the windshield. So far the tuning is a pain in the butt, but it's beginning to sound like it's coming together. I was going to replace my under-dash horns because I thought that it would throw off the imaging, but it's actually made the soundstage HUGE and completely invisible. I've tried a hundred different designs in this and I'm very, very close to what I believe is perfect.

Keep the horns alive!!!
 
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