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Old 7th May 2007, 01:16 AM   #1
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Join Date: May 2006
Default Orion 2150SX

I am lost
I replaced ALL capacitors , all the powersupply transistors , the 2 sets of a06 and a56 that will typically go out in the power supply , I tested all the 2n6488 and the 2n6491's and only 2 2n6488 transistirs were bad on 1 channel but i replaced all 5 with same 2n6488, I rechcecked my work turned on the amp with a 12volt powersupply but low amperage it played great no problems on either channel , gain worked fine , eq button worked , mono worked , all was fine so i set it aside, I got 2 other 2150sx's and rebuilt the powersupplys in the aswell they turned on played music just fine all was great BUT when hooked up to a car or standard powersupply with higher amperage they fried 1 bank of powersupply transistors went up in smoke , there were no traces burnt or crossed , now in the powersupply on 1 side there is an L7815CV and a 2n6488 they checked out fine so i did not replace those and even after a sedcond powersupply failure they still check ok , anyone have any ideas what i missed ? this was quite an expensive lesson to learn , but atleast hopefully I will learn what I did wrong.

thank you in advance
redblaze
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Old 7th May 2007, 01:50 AM   #2
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Have you checked out all of the Tantalum capacitors in the audio section ?? They go dead nutz shorted and cause real high current draw just a FYI
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Old 7th May 2007, 02:33 AM   #3
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would the amp actually work and turn on and play if 1 was shorted out in the audio or powersupply section ? they are the green caps correct? , or the small round orange ones ? also I tone them to see if they are shorted should I do that or try to get an actual reading ? at the base of the large torroid there are 2 small orange circular caps they tone as shorted , but on all 3 amps they act the same , maybe this is the problem ? there is 1 green cap in the powersupply on 1 that reads as shorted and all the rest seem fine in the same spot on the other 2 amps . any special way I should check these? I have never checked them before probably a good idea to learn how before I blow up another 1

thank you
redblaze
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Old 7th May 2007, 09:21 AM   #4
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Did you check the 10 ohm resistors between the collector of the MPSA56 PS driver transistor and ground? They often open and won't allow the driver to turn the bank of FETs off.

Also check the 12v zener connected between the gate drive and ground. It's located between the gate resistors for the power supply. If it's shorted, only half of the transformer will be driven which can cause power supply failure.

Did you check each of the power supply FET gate resistors?

If you have a scope, check the drive signal on each of the power supply FET gates. They should be essentially the same for both banks of power supply FETs. The signal should be square (not significantly sloped) and should go to ground. It will only be ~4v in amplitude at idle.

The tantalum caps are the orange, epoxy coated capacitors.

The green epoxy coated caps are mylar/polyester capacitors. None should read 0 ohms. If it does, it needs to be pulled and checked. If it's in parallel with a larger capacitor, the meter may read near zero ohms but as the larger capacitor charges (due to the voltage applied by the meter), it should eventually indicate that it's open.
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Old 7th May 2007, 06:07 PM   #5
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Ok some of the gate resistors read 4.3 to 10.3ohms that is with bad transistors still soldered in place I will change those , most of the zener diodes read .3 and tone as if they are shorted on the MM only a few wont give a tone , on what appears to be all metal zener diodes a couple read 4.3 and 1 read 99.5, the orange coated round caps by the torroid read .3 and tone, the meter doesnt flucuate as if its charging the caps, on the audio side the 2 round orange caps at the end of the 8 1000uf caps tone aswell but read 25.4 and they are marked 1kv on top 101k below that, another strange thing I noticed on 2 of the amps there is a large zener between the small first torroid and the 2 smaller 1000uf caps in the powersupply and the power wire attatches before those 2 caps , but on 1 2150 there is no large zener between the caps and torroid but that is where the power wire is attached and in that amp nothing was removed prior to me working on it so it appears to be factory done. unfortunately I do not have a scope so I cannot check the wave forms. the 2150 I am working on first is also the 1 that is on ampguts http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/ just for reference, on that amp i replaced all caps except for all the 1000UF , green or orange caps and the 3300UF they seemed to be fine except for the green and orange which I never checked , but now the 3300UF are reading .3 and not flucuating the MM just giving a constant tone , I will pull them all and recheck
I also replaced ALL of the powersupply transistors. and the a06 and a56 in the powersupply.

thank you
redblaze
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Old 9th May 2007, 02:00 AM   #6
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ok I pulled all of the powersupply transistors and 3 checked bad , all of the gate resistors show fine at 10.3 - 10.4 ohms on each side there is a 100ohm resisotor and they check fine , I pulled 1 end of the zener dioded off the board and checked those they gave no reading which I believe is ok right ? so atleast I know they arent shorted ? when I checked the 3300UF caps they showed shorted and so did the smaller 1000UF caps in the powersupply when I removed the 3300UF caps they checked fine out of the board BUT the contacts where they were soldered showed shorted so I pulled the smaller 1000UF caps and the spots where the 3300UF caps were at were no longer shorting out so I replaced the 1000UF caps with new ones and the spots where the 3300UF caps were was still ok and then I put the old 1000UF caps back in and it still showed ok so I am confused again 1 second the caps show shorted in the board and then out they are ok then when back in they are ok , on the audio side all caps made the MM jump through the numbers , the green caps only a few made the MM jump through numbers the rest gave no reading at all , and the orange round caps only the 2 at the beginning of the 8 larger caps show 25.6 the rest give no readings aswell as the small oblong bright orange caps they give no readings. ok so far thats where I am at , I have checked all the output transistors but I am going to pull them and check them off board. but does any of this maybe clear something up or pinpoint anything ?, I am lost , you think you have it then boom something messes you all up and you have to start over I just cant believe they played for over an hour, each amp no problems no overheating hooked up to 2 15's but just on a low amperage power supply , I figured after an hour they would show some signs of a problem the 10amp fuses I used for testing them to trun on didnt even blow but the second they are on a car battery flash fire in the powersupply .

thanks again
redblaze
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Old 9th May 2007, 02:50 AM   #7
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If the caps were shorted, you shouldn't have reinstalled them. The problem could be intermittant and can cause problems later.

Was the amp mounted to the vehicle (or touching a grounded surface) when it blew the supply?

It's rare that only a few FETs fail in the supply. Even if the others appear to be OK, they could be damaged. It's best to replace all FETs at once. At the very least, you should pull all of them and check them out of the board. With your meter set to ohms, there should be absolutely no continuity between the gate and either of the other terminals.

The zener diodes should behave just like a normal diode when checking them.
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Old 9th May 2007, 05:19 AM   #8
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No the amp wasnt mounted and was not grounding out, I only put the old caps back in to see if something else was causing the shorting or if it was the caps because the old caps checked fine out of the board so I only put them back in to see if they behaved like the brand new ones and they did but I have removed them.

I did check the transistors out of the board I removed them all and checked each 1 individially I get .502 to .508 on each 1 after checking with ground on the middle leg and pos on the right leg, all these transistors were brand new I installed them and checked them before install untill the big blowup , and only 3 are completely shorted, I am going to buy all new agin though.

I have found a few diodes that are acting up they gave me readings all over the place in both directions but when I pulled them from the board they seem fine only readiing in 1 direction , there are also full metal diodes that did the same thing once pulled from the board they read in only 1 direction, now does that mean that there is something still in the board not allowing them to close and that is what is supposed to happen or are they supposed to show voltage in 1 direction even when installed ? so far I dont believe I have found a zener diode they are all reading in 1 direction and I have measured the voltage drop and they are all around the same .533 to .544 except for the full metal ones are in the .705 to .710 , now a zener will measure no matter if pos is on the anode or cathode correct ?
only when the few diodes I mentioned are connected do they read in both directions and they flucuate in voltage readings. other than that so far all diodes are showing reading in 1 direction.

do i check the A06 and A56 the same way as as the other transistors ? and if there is no direct short what should the readings be close to ?
all the parts I have pulled from the board I have not reinstalled nor installed new yet I only put new caps in for a few to see if the short was still there.

redblaze
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Old 9th May 2007, 10:52 AM   #9
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I have found a few diodes that are acting up they gave me readings all over the place in both directions but when I pulled them from the board they seem fine only readiing in 1 direction , there are also full metal diodes that did the same thing once pulled from the board they read in only 1 direction, now does that mean that there is something still in the board not allowing them to close

**** The diodes don't open/close. When the forward breakdown voltage is reached (~0.6v), the diode begins to conduct.



and that is what is supposed to happen or are they supposed to show voltage in 1 direction even when installed ?

**** The rest of the circuit is influencing the readings. If the circuit doesn't prevent the meter from reaching the diode's breakdown voltage, it will read ~0.6v when forward biased. It's more difficult to get an open reading when the leads are reversed because virtually anything in the circuit can prevent the meter from reaching the 2+v required for it to read open (for a fluke meter in diode check mode).



so far I dont believe I have found a zener diode they are all reading in 1 direction and I have measured the voltage drop and they are all around the same .533 to .544 except for the full

**** These are likely standard rectifier diodes.



metal ones are in the .705 to .710 ,

**** These are not likely metal. Some diodes use a gray plastic case.


now a zener will measure no matter if pos is on the anode or cathode correct ?

**** Not unless you have a meter that applies enough voltage to cause the zener to break down when reverse biased. Most meters apply less than 3v to the diodes in diode check mode so the zener will read ~0.7v in one direction and open in the other direction.


only when the few diodes I mentioned are connected do they read in both directions and they flucuate in voltage readings. other than that so far all diodes are showing reading in 1 direction.

**** No diode (when out of the board) should pass current in both directions. If it does, it's defective.



do i check the A06 and A56 the same way as as the other transistors ?

**** It depends on 'the other transistors'.



and if there is no direct short what should the readings be close to ?

**** Out of the board, the A06/56 should be open between the outer legs no matter the placement of the leads. They should read ~0.6v from the center leg to the outer legs. The A56 should give those readings when the black lead is on the center leg. The A06 should give those readings when the red lead is on the center leg.
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Old 10th May 2007, 08:23 PM   #10
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I pulled all the a06 and a56 and all checked ok , I also pulled every 2n6488 and 2n6491 and they checked ok, only parts left to check ar the the 337T and 317T can you tell me what readings I am supposed to get on those , they are the 2 transitors or rectifiers at the beginning of each bank of 2n6488 and 2n6491 , I also have to check the L7815 and I am not sure what reading that should give aswell. then there is the on the underside of the baord the 2 big rectifiers but they check ok and then what looks to be a thermal protection part wrapped in plastic can that cause the amp to fail and burn parts and what is that supposed to give a reading of , because short of unsoldering the rail caps and all the resisitos , op amp ther isnt much left on the board and I havent found 1 other bad part except the 3 powersupply transistors that were brand new and checked ok before I put them in, oh I also am going to check the u07 and u57 gate transistors .


thanks
redblaze
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