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Pioneer PL-41 bearing help
Pioneer PL-41 bearing help
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Old 1st April 2007, 03:45 PM   #11
pjanda1 is offline pjanda1  United States
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I'll call around town tomorrow and see if I can find someone to make the part. I really like this table. My wife (then young girlfriend) found it at a garage sale (for free with a broken belt), suspected I'd like it, and carried it an awfully long way home. It's built like a brick sh**house. I just replaced the stock tonearm with one from a Music Hall MMF2 (I put a new hole in the plinth). The stock arm seemed too heavy to provide a good compliance match for modern cartridges and the bearings are tough to adjust just right.

Unfortunately, I've always experianced some speed instability with this thing. I bought a manual for it on ebay a few years back, and it blames any speed problems on either a dirty belt/platter/pulley or a poorly lubricated bearing. I'm hoping that the completely broken thrust plate may have something to do with it, as I've covered the other bases. If it isn't the problem, I'll be looking closely at the motor.

I'll let you know how the thrust plate turns out.

pj
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Old 1st April 2007, 04:08 PM   #12
gypsielectro is offline gypsielectro  Japan
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Default El Gippo

yeah, these are a real sleeper of a turntable; I have owned several so I'm familiar enough with these to comment: ( my latest PL 12 is being made into a record cleaning machine, mine also cost me nothing )

Check the Belt: wrong length and/or stretched is No Go
Dust in the motor/poor lubrication, failed grommets ( very common, 'cos these are OLD )
Lack of oil in the bearing well + failed thrust plate

*and any combination of the above*

will cause the speed instability you've observed

It's quite possible you've yet to hear the Pioneer at its best

Its quite a heavy platter so I'll add one more: *level* the Pioneer with a small spirit@level so the platter is level against gravity, don't worry if the rest of the turntable is level or not, s'long as the platter is. Makes it easier for the belt and motor to do its thing

Good Luck!

The Electric Gypsy
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Old 2nd April 2007, 04:19 AM   #13
OBMG74 is offline OBMG74  United States
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I had a large enough piece of the thrust plate left to put a caliper on, and it measured .083" in thickness.

But as you mentioned, any variation can be compensated for by adjusting the tonearm height.

I don't have a Palm Pilot so maybe I will apply a label advising the next change is due in 2090 (like an oil change sticker).

7/8" dia Delrin rod is available but I haven't yet figured out how I am going to cut off a .083" slice on my woodworking lathe...

Pj, if you find a source to make the part locally, would appreciate you sharing that info.

OB
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Old 2nd April 2007, 08:06 AM   #14
YNWOAN is offline YNWOAN  United Kingdom
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I doubt you will be able to turn Delrin on a wood work lathe as it preffers higher speeds on a metal work lathe. However, it may be possible as I doubt that it is as dense as Ebony.
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Old 2nd April 2007, 10:21 PM   #15
pjanda1 is offline pjanda1  United States
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I took the cap to a machine shop today and they cut a plate out of a delrin rod. It cost me $12.36. I had looked at ordering a sheet, but many places have minimum orders. I was also concerned about my ability to put a dimple right in the center without access to a drill press. I'll get the table back together and see where things stand.

pj
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Old 2nd April 2007, 10:32 PM   #16
YNWOAN is offline YNWOAN  United Kingdom
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Don't use a drill press - get the machine shop to face off both sides and then use the tail stock in the Lathe to make the dimple - it will be a whole lot more concentric.
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Old 2nd April 2007, 11:11 PM   #17
pjanda1 is offline pjanda1  United States
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I had the machine shop make the dimple; I was just mentioning why I didn't do it.

pj
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Old 3rd April 2007, 10:57 PM   #18
YNWOAN is offline YNWOAN  United Kingdom
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Oh, OK - all is well then - Enjoy.
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Old 7th April 2007, 06:02 PM   #19
OBMG74 is offline OBMG74  United States
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Update on my project, with a question:

I ordered and received a 12" length of 7/8" diameter delrin rod from McMaster Carr.

Took the rod to a friend who owns a machine shop and he cut off several .083" slices for me.

I used a center punch with a light blow from a hammer to create a 1mm diameter dimple.

Put the 3 metal spacers in the threaded cap, added the delrin plate, and added oil per the Electric Gypsy's instructions.

However, here's the observation/question:

It appears that the metal spacers are slick enough with oil that the whole assembly spins in the cap. (Of course I have no way of knowing if this happens when assembled to the table, although the inside bottom of the cap where the lower metal spacer rests does show wear.)

I could have started with a larger diameter rod and machined it so it would be force-fit into the cap so that the assembly would not spin, but the original does not appear to have been done that way.

I have experimented with removing all the metal spacers and substituting an O-ring of the same approximate height on which the delrin rests. This prevents the delrin from spinning.


Seems to work, comments please.

OB
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Old 8th April 2007, 01:17 AM   #20
gypsielectro is offline gypsielectro  Japan
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The thrust plate shouldn't spin; on the Empires these are glued in place, on the Pioneer the thrust bearing does stay put

A couple of dots of superglue on the back, a O Ring of the right diameter will do the trick

Enjoy!

Los Gippos
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