Kugel Bearing :D

ak_47_boy · 18th February 2007, 03:19 AM

A little background on the idea:

http://www.accessniagara.com/attract...ness/index.php

I have personally played with this kugel ball a few times, since i live in Niagara Falls. I was amazed how little effort it took to spin it, and how it did not slow down once it was spinning. It's like a perfect bearing

Your playing with pure inertia

So how about using this idea for a turntable? Since we already have high pressure oil we might as well use it for the bushing too.
Here is the idea:

I added in a Damper. This will have air in it, hopefully the air will "give" so pressure surges don't bounce the platter.

I am looking at a little pump from MC.MASTER CARR. I could run it on a DC motor with speed control to get the right amount of pressure.

My platter is 70LBS

CARR has precision glass, ceramic, tungsten carbide & tungsten alloys balls. I think i will use a 440C stainless tube.

Good idea? Bad idea? Suggestions?

Edit: I think carbide balls, since they have the best sphericity tolerances of .000025". What does ground finish mean? Polished?

hacknet · 18th February 2007, 01:42 PM

ive thought about it many times before but i could never come up with a way to keep the oil from spilling all over the place.. i got my inspiration from the chinese decoration very much like the one you have in your picture but on a much smaller scale.

in that design, the fluid would be pushing from the bottom, the problem still is to get the fluid to be released evenly. i dont know how to work around this.

ak_47_boy · 18th February 2007, 05:57 PM

I found this thread on a physics fourm.
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=117832

ak_47_boy · 18th February 2007, 06:34 PM

I think the effect is "Hydrostatic lubrication".

Henrik Juhl · 19th February 2007, 07:58 AM

Hi ak_47_boy,

Interesting idea...

In a Danish DIY forum this idea has been explored by making the platter resting on top of a cone with only a fluid separation. I'know that *some* people find Danish hard to read

but beleive you me it's not that diffucult - anyways, the pictures may give you some inspiration..

See more here: http://www.hifi4all.dk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42780

jrevillug · 19th February 2007, 12:22 PM

I like the cone idea- very neat.

The only problem that I can think of with the fluid layer separation is that there may be some play in the bearings- especially if you have fairly large clearances and have to pump lots of oil through it.

James

cubastreet · 19th February 2007, 07:49 PM

One problem you may have with the ball idea is that any variance in oil pressure will translate directly into up and down movement of the platter and appear directly as rumble through the loudspeakers.

ak_47_boy · 19th February 2007, 11:05 PM

I was hopeing that a gear pump would not have pressure surges. I thought the damper idea would help also. Could this be a problem? Who thinks it would even work?

brianco · 20th February 2007, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jrevillug
I like the cone idea- very neat.

The only problem that I can think of with the fluid layer separation is that there may be some play in the bearings- especially if you have fairly large clearances and have to pump lots of oil through it.

James

Try and develop this idea with AIR pressure rather than oil. It works. I have seen this achieved on a massive TT with extremely heavy platter. Also I have never heard a better sound!

Brianco

18th February 2007, 03:19 AM	#1
ak_47_boy diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2006	Kugel Bearing :D A little background on the idea: http://www.accessniagara.com/attract...ness/index.php I have personally played with this kugel ball a few times, since i live in Niagara Falls. I was amazed how little effort it took to spin it, and how it did not slow down once it was spinning. It's like a perfect bearing Your playing with pure inertia So how about using this idea for a turntable? Since we already have high pressure oil we might as well use it for the bushing too. Here is the idea: I added in a Damper. This will have air in it, hopefully the air will "give" so pressure surges don't bounce the platter. I am looking at a little pump from MC.MASTER CARR. I could run it on a DC motor with speed control to get the right amount of pressure. My platter is 70LBS CARR has precision glass, ceramic, tungsten carbide & tungsten alloys balls. I think i will use a 440C stainless tube. Good idea? Bad idea? Suggestions? Edit: I think carbide balls, since they have the best sphericity tolerances of .000025". What does ground finish mean? Polished?

19th February 2007, 07:58 AM	#5
Henrik Juhl diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Copenhagen	Hi ak_47_boy, Interesting idea... In a Danish DIY forum this idea has been explored by making the platter resting on top of a cone with only a fluid separation. I'know that some people find Danish hard to read but beleive you me it's not that diffucult - anyways, the pictures may give you some inspiration.. See more here: http://www.hifi4all.dk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42780 __________________ Regards, Henrik Juhl

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18th February 2007, 01:42 PM	#2
hacknet diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: sg	ive thought about it many times before but i could never come up with a way to keep the oil from spilling all over the place.. i got my inspiration from the chinese decoration very much like the one you have in your picture but on a much smaller scale. in that design, the fluid would be pushing from the bottom, the problem still is to get the fluid to be released evenly. i dont know how to work around this.

18th February 2007, 05:57 PM	#3
ak_47_boy diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2006	I found this thread on a physics fourm. http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=117832

18th February 2007, 06:34 PM	#4
ak_47_boy diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2006	I think the effect is "Hydrostatic lubrication".

19th February 2007, 12:22 PM	#6
jrevillug diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2006	I like the cone idea- very neat. The only problem that I can think of with the fluid layer separation is that there may be some play in the bearings- especially if you have fairly large clearances and have to pump lots of oil through it. James

19th February 2007, 07:49 PM	#7
cubastreet diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wellington	One problem you may have with the ball idea is that any variance in oil pressure will translate directly into up and down movement of the platter and appear directly as rumble through the loudspeakers.

19th February 2007, 11:05 PM	#8
ak_47_boy diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2006	I was hopeing that a gear pump would not have pressure surges. I thought the damper idea would help also. Could this be a problem? Who thinks it would even work?

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