I,ve been search'n for a few weeks and have been looking at the TD125, 150, 160 and 165. I looked at the AR tables but don't know much about them. I was really into the Systemdek, but can't find any. The HK looks very good, but a used one is the same price as when it was new. I never considered a Kenwood, Denon, Sansui, etc. I bid on a Pro-Ject on Ebay and lost. I don't think I want a direct drive TT and a linear TT in my price range may not be good. I even bid on a C J Walker and lost out. I am interested in a Rega Planer 3 ($325) with a blue point cartridge, but think I could do better.
So this is where I am at.
So this is where I am at.
Guess it's not as "overlooked" as I thought
The modern AR is as sought after as the other tables your looking at, and usually priced accordingly. It basically is a vintage AR with a modern arm. If you are good with a file and hacksaw, you can modify a vintage table..these commonly go for less than a hundred. Add a good used arm, and you are about at your budget. My intoduction to suspended BD tables was a vintage AR that I fitted an Infinity Black Widow to. I did all the work in my bedroom. Basically you remove the "T" sub-frame, whack off the end the stock arm mounts to, file the piece flate at the cut, bolt a piece of metal drilled for your new arm to the "T" (based on the mounting template for your new arm ), cut the top plinth to clear your new arm mount point if needed, and voila', one sweet TT.
-Casey
I just did a Google on the T-60, and aside from all the glowing reviews that confirmed my memory of the table, I found this freshly calibrated one (scroll down) for $330. It's your call, but if half of what I remember, and all the current owners are saying is true, I don't think you will find a better value. Check out this Audiogon thread for some of the typical opinions I found.
-Casey
-Casey
I saw that T-60 for $330.00 before I posted. That is what drove my comment.
I can buy a Rega Planar 3 with the sumiko blue point cartridge for $325.00 on Audiogon.
I read all the good stuff about the T-60 on Audiogon too.
I'll take shallbehealed's info and be patient. I like the recommendations I have gotten here. It gives me a few choices.
I can buy a Rega Planar 3 with the sumiko blue point cartridge for $325.00 on Audiogon.
I read all the good stuff about the T-60 on Audiogon too.
I'll take shallbehealed's info and be patient. I like the recommendations I have gotten here. It gives me a few choices.
rats!!!! I missed another one. My luck is bad.
I watch Audiogon a few times every day. Today I found a Thorens TD160MKII for $250.00. It came with a Shure V15 type III cartridge. It was even in my own state. I Emailed the guy when there was about 60 views (less then and hour it was listed). He never replied until 7 hours later stating it was sold.
I watch Audiogon a few times every day. Today I found a Thorens TD160MKII for $250.00. It came with a Shure V15 type III cartridge. It was even in my own state. I Emailed the guy when there was about 60 views (less then and hour it was listed). He never replied until 7 hours later stating it was sold.
Hey Kip,
You mentioned above that you weren't familiar with the AR tables.. let me tell you my experience with one.
My second DIY table was a modified Acoustic Research XA with an Infinity Black Widow tonearm, a judicial amount of plumbers putty, and a Grado cart. It was a fantastic deck. A friend of mine had a Linn Sondek/Ittok combo running a Dynavector (can't remember which). After I and my roommates got through talking up my AR, he thought it would be fun to compare. I carted my rig over to his house and set it up. Since he was MC and I was MM, we used the same pre and switched between inputs. We then proceeded to pour some port, and listen for a long time. The conclusion amongst all of us was that the Linn was better, but not by near the margin you would expect. Keep in mind I was running a $15 Grado and his cart cost double of what my whole rig cost me. The consensus was that the Linn setup had more resolution of the nuance, as well as better extension, but they both had the same overall presentation..they were so close in fact that Mr. Linn Sondek offered me $500 cash if I would leave mine with him for a second system. I declined the offer.
Take the above for what it's worth.
Setting a AR up isn't more than a weekend or two (depending on how purdy you want it) of basic work. The 5th picture down in the link above you can clearly see the “T” suspension, You take this out, and cut off the end with the tonearm about 3” from the end. You the file the ridges flat on the bottom about an inch from the end you cut off. This flat is were you drill and bolt your new extension for your new arm. This cosmetically damaged Magnapan Unipivot would clean up nice, and be an excellent choice. Line the inside and under the platter with rope caulk. Mount this Grado cart (or the best Grado you can afford), this felt mat (identical to the one I used) and you have a table in league with all the ones your trying to score. It will sound great right out of the gate. Adding a record weight (mandatory) will lower the tuning of the suspension, but you can re-tune it.
Going this route will get you going under budget, and you can say it's DIY
-Casey
You mentioned above that you weren't familiar with the AR tables.. let me tell you my experience with one.
My second DIY table was a modified Acoustic Research XA with an Infinity Black Widow tonearm, a judicial amount of plumbers putty, and a Grado cart. It was a fantastic deck. A friend of mine had a Linn Sondek/Ittok combo running a Dynavector (can't remember which). After I and my roommates got through talking up my AR, he thought it would be fun to compare. I carted my rig over to his house and set it up. Since he was MC and I was MM, we used the same pre and switched between inputs. We then proceeded to pour some port, and listen for a long time. The conclusion amongst all of us was that the Linn was better, but not by near the margin you would expect. Keep in mind I was running a $15 Grado and his cart cost double of what my whole rig cost me. The consensus was that the Linn setup had more resolution of the nuance, as well as better extension, but they both had the same overall presentation..they were so close in fact that Mr. Linn Sondek offered me $500 cash if I would leave mine with him for a second system. I declined the offer.
Take the above for what it's worth.
Setting a AR up isn't more than a weekend or two (depending on how purdy you want it) of basic work. The 5th picture down in the link above you can clearly see the “T” suspension, You take this out, and cut off the end with the tonearm about 3” from the end. You the file the ridges flat on the bottom about an inch from the end you cut off. This flat is were you drill and bolt your new extension for your new arm. This cosmetically damaged Magnapan Unipivot would clean up nice, and be an excellent choice. Line the inside and under the platter with rope caulk. Mount this Grado cart (or the best Grado you can afford), this felt mat (identical to the one I used) and you have a table in league with all the ones your trying to score. It will sound great right out of the gate. Adding a record weight (mandatory) will lower the tuning of the suspension, but you can re-tune it.
Going this route will get you going under budget, and you can say it's DIY
-Casey
I'd surely take Casey's AR before a TD160. $250 seems pretty high to me. I've typically gotten $125-150 for them (i give no stock to the Shure V15, a cartridge i don't like at all -- give me Casey's Grado (they were $29 in Canada at the time -- i sold at least a 1000 of those))
I'd rank a Rega II (even with the old Lustre arm) ahead of the Thorens.
I have re-armed many ARs & even more TD150/160/165s (the 160 is the niceset of that lot)
Here is what the guts of an AR look like. The plan is to ditch the suspension and build it up in a rigid plinth. I haven't decided whether it will get one of my Formula 4s or one of the better CEC straight tonearms.
This will actually be a trial-run for something similar based on Linn parts.
dave
I'd rank a Rega II (even with the old Lustre arm) ahead of the Thorens.
I have re-armed many ARs & even more TD150/160/165s (the 160 is the niceset of that lot)
Here is what the guts of an AR look like. The plan is to ditch the suspension and build it up in a rigid plinth. I haven't decided whether it will get one of my Formula 4s or one of the better CEC straight tonearms.
This will actually be a trial-run for something similar based on Linn parts.
dave
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valveitude said:
I always just flattened off the t-bar part, drilled a larger hole, and use some of the plantiful Grace 707 washers (you have lots spare when you are selling those into the thousands)
If i want suspension i can add it under the table. I just tend to prefer rigid tables -- especially if you are diying. (and its not like i don't have experience -- i've owned over a dozen Linns, a couple Oracles, R3, current table is a $100 R2 with Linn Basik arm and Garrot P77 -- it will get replinthed at some point so that i have room for adding my Hadcock to the mix)
dave
Well, that certainly sounds easier
I think I went with the "arm board" route to accomadate the length of the Infinity arm..it's been too long to remember exactly.Can't fault you there. I believe the suspension tables offer a simple solution to a lot of the problems facing TT design, but they certainly aren't the last word. A major drawback for me with the suspension designs (at least with both my TD-160, and AR) is the sensitivity to foot falls. I lived in a house with a "spongy" floor back in the AR days, and had to move the table to an adjoining room
-Casey
Exactly..It's easier to match everthing with an easily tuned suspension..but I havent heard one with the authority of a mass loaded table. All tables are "suspension" tables when you get down to it, it's just a question of low mass and a highly compliant suspension (springs), or a high mass and low compliance (floor,stand,etc.) suspension. Clearly it's easier to tune a spring.
-Casey
When I first got my Lenco, I put it into a light wooden box. I was contemplating replacing it with a Thorens until I saw the idea of adding a heavy base. When I decided to do that the bass slam was so much better that I just couldn't believe it. I went with chip board sheets with lead sandwiched between them, it now weight 4 stone I think.
I got another huge improvement when I moved it off the entertainments cupboard and onto a wall mounted shelf.
Shoog
I got another huge improvement when I moved it off the entertainments cupboard and onto a wall mounted shelf.
Shoog
I retrieved a Rega Planar 2 with old Rega R200 arm (Rega's version of the Lustre) from a recycling centre.
It's not in bad shape - arm seems fine, main bearing seems fine (turns for an age when spun - no noticeable bearing rocking). Only problem is scratches on lid & broken hinge.
Is this rated a reasonable TT? (I see it mentioned above as being ahead of the Thorens). Has anybody got mods for this apart from changing the arm. I was thinking of decoupling the motor from the base by mounting it beside the base - both on a wall mounted shelf.
Any other ideas ?
John
It's not in bad shape - arm seems fine, main bearing seems fine (turns for an age when spun - no noticeable bearing rocking). Only problem is scratches on lid & broken hinge.
Is this rated a reasonable TT? (I see it mentioned above as being ahead of the Thorens). Has anybody got mods for this apart from changing the arm. I was thinking of decoupling the motor from the base by mounting it beside the base - both on a wall mounted shelf.
Any other ideas ?
John
jkeny said:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
That would probably fetch at least $100 if you wanted to swap arms.
Dust cover? No big loss. Mine (below) has a "proper" dust cover.
New plinth with separate motor pod, ground the bearing, make a teflon nut for the bearing.
Mount the motor pod 180° from the arm.
dave
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