Greetings and well met everyone. This is my first post on this forum and am excited that there are many others just like me!
I've been on AudioAsylum Vinyl/Tube/Speaker/DIY forums for almost 3 years now. Built Jon Risch's bass traps, room lenses, sound panels, speaker cables 89259. Planning on building Bottlehead Foreplay and Seduction to replace my Rotel separates.
Iv'e owned an LP12 w/Basik Plus, Pro-Ject 1.2, MMF-5, NottingHam Interspace w/Hyperspace Platter. My best cartidge is the Goldring Erocia MC. I've demo'ed the Rega 3 & 25, ClearAudio Champ1, GyroDek SE, SME10.
I've posted this topic over at the Vinyl Engine and many platter material postings on AA but with limited responses. Maybe I can gain some new prespectives and insights on this forum.
DIY TURNTABLE PLAN
Buy the Teres maxxon motor ($400)
Buy Teres inverted bearings ($250)
My best friend is a master machinist and shop forman for the Univiersity of Colorado research lab with 15 years experience. I'm going to enlist his aid to manufacture the platter, plynth and possibly a separate tonearm pillar.
Platter: Sandwiched layers starting from bottom. 1" black PVC-1" alumunum-1" black PVC. Professional Plastics say they do have 1" PVC black in stock. (question: 12" platter the correct size?)
Plynth: Sandwiched layers starting from bottom. 1" Alumunum-1" black PVC. Maybe another 1" alunumun layer on top of that too?
If I were to build an armboard attached to the plnyth it would be another sandwiched layer of pvc and alumunum. Black Racing cones for the feet.
Tonearm Pillar: Stainless, Alumunum or Brass 4" cylindar. Filled with mineral oil coated lead shot. Mounted on Black Racing cones.
Options for Plynth and Platter:
Use stainless steel instead? Alumunum is 14 lbs per sq foot
1" STAINLESS T-304 ANNEALED HRAP PLATE is Weight/square foot: 41.328 pounds
0.5" STAINLESS T-304 ANNEALED HRAP PLATE is Weight/square foot: 20.664 pounds
Further resonance control: I was thinking of using that damping material sold at Parts Express. have a 1/2" thick groove carved into the bottom of the platter and run a strip of that stuff along it. This should help I was told. Maybe some of the bottom of the plynth also.
Placement: Grizzly Industrial - search on part #G9654 for this 154 lb. plate granite slab.
I've been on AudioAsylum Vinyl/Tube/Speaker/DIY forums for almost 3 years now. Built Jon Risch's bass traps, room lenses, sound panels, speaker cables 89259. Planning on building Bottlehead Foreplay and Seduction to replace my Rotel separates.
Iv'e owned an LP12 w/Basik Plus, Pro-Ject 1.2, MMF-5, NottingHam Interspace w/Hyperspace Platter. My best cartidge is the Goldring Erocia MC. I've demo'ed the Rega 3 & 25, ClearAudio Champ1, GyroDek SE, SME10.
I've posted this topic over at the Vinyl Engine and many platter material postings on AA but with limited responses. Maybe I can gain some new prespectives and insights on this forum.
DIY TURNTABLE PLAN
Buy the Teres maxxon motor ($400)
Buy Teres inverted bearings ($250)
My best friend is a master machinist and shop forman for the Univiersity of Colorado research lab with 15 years experience. I'm going to enlist his aid to manufacture the platter, plynth and possibly a separate tonearm pillar.
Platter: Sandwiched layers starting from bottom. 1" black PVC-1" alumunum-1" black PVC. Professional Plastics say they do have 1" PVC black in stock. (question: 12" platter the correct size?)
Plynth: Sandwiched layers starting from bottom. 1" Alumunum-1" black PVC. Maybe another 1" alunumun layer on top of that too?
If I were to build an armboard attached to the plnyth it would be another sandwiched layer of pvc and alumunum. Black Racing cones for the feet.
Tonearm Pillar: Stainless, Alumunum or Brass 4" cylindar. Filled with mineral oil coated lead shot. Mounted on Black Racing cones.
Options for Plynth and Platter:
Use stainless steel instead? Alumunum is 14 lbs per sq foot
1" STAINLESS T-304 ANNEALED HRAP PLATE is Weight/square foot: 41.328 pounds
0.5" STAINLESS T-304 ANNEALED HRAP PLATE is Weight/square foot: 20.664 pounds
Further resonance control: I was thinking of using that damping material sold at Parts Express. have a 1/2" thick groove carved into the bottom of the platter and run a strip of that stuff along it. This should help I was told. Maybe some of the bottom of the plynth also.
Placement: Grizzly Industrial - search on part #G9654 for this 154 lb. plate granite slab.
Good Luck StylinLP
StylinLP
Good luck with your TT-project.
It is not the easiest one can do ....
The most extreme turntable I have read about
was the prototype to this
ELP Laser Turntable -
This is a simpler one!, with a price more suitable for the consumers market:
ELP Laser Turntable
Keep us informed how your work goes.
There are a lot of people here who knows about this subject.
This is the turntable without a needle but with a laser!
http://www.elpj.com/images/laserturntable.jpg
/halojoy - uses needle
StylinLP
Good luck with your TT-project.
It is not the easiest one can do ....
The most extreme turntable I have read about
was the prototype to this
ELP Laser Turntable -
This is a simpler one!, with a price more suitable for the consumers market:
ELP Laser Turntable
Keep us informed how your work goes.
There are a lot of people here who knows about this subject.
This is the turntable without a needle but with a laser!
http://www.elpj.com/images/laserturntable.jpg
/halojoy - uses needle
Correction to previous post
The most extreme turntable I have read about
is not the ELP player.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I ment the constructions of Takeshi Teragaki.
His first extreme TT was SIGMA 5000.
But then he made a simpler version for consumers market.
It was SIGMA 3000.
Both uses a laser first to read all of the vinyl record.
Then the data is used to guide the arm and the pickup
through the tracks. It follows the tracks
with perfect tracking! when the record is played.
Only the pickup head has a weight of 400 grams.
But the arm is steared by this replaying robot
in an "irongrip" with hyper precision, based on the data.
At shows Teragaki invited the visitors the try to
lift the arm of the player by force, but nobody succeded!
----------------------------------------------------------
Here is some pictures of SIGMA 5000 Mk II
SIGMA 5000 Mk II - Gallery
Here is the simpler machine with same technique SIGMA 3000
including 3 different prototypes
See Teragaki
Teragaki SIGMA turntables
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Here is one prototype to the first SIGMA 5000
The most extreme turntable I have read about
is not the ELP player.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I ment the constructions of Takeshi Teragaki.
His first extreme TT was SIGMA 5000.
But then he made a simpler version for consumers market.
It was SIGMA 3000.
Both uses a laser first to read all of the vinyl record.
Then the data is used to guide the arm and the pickup
through the tracks. It follows the tracks
with perfect tracking! when the record is played.
Only the pickup head has a weight of 400 grams.
But the arm is steared by this replaying robot
in an "irongrip" with hyper precision, based on the data.
At shows Teragaki invited the visitors the try to
lift the arm of the player by force, but nobody succeded!
----------------------------------------------------------
Here is some pictures of SIGMA 5000 Mk II
SIGMA 5000 Mk II - Gallery
Here is the simpler machine with same technique SIGMA 3000
including 3 different prototypes
See Teragaki
Teragaki SIGMA turntables
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Here is one prototype to the first SIGMA 5000
Attachments
Welcome StylinLP!
You might consider checking out some of the parts from these guys... They have taken the Teres project to the next level...
http://www.redpoint-audio-design.com/
If you call and speak with Thom, you'll find him very knowledgeable as well as a very nice guy!
Good Luck!
You might consider checking out some of the parts from these guys... They have taken the Teres project to the next level...
http://www.redpoint-audio-design.com/
If you call and speak with Thom, you'll find him very knowledgeable as well as a very nice guy!
Good Luck!
Interesting laser table
That laser turntable is quite interesting but I'm in no way interested in my analog sound touching an ounce of digital.
I can't wait to get away from transistors and build my Bottlehead tube preamp and phono preamp.
I was looking over the weight of alumunum and stainless steel. Looks like stainless is twice as heavy at half the thickness. I have no idea what the sound properties of the two is or the resonance so maybe I should stick with Alumunum since thats the common material used by $2000 and up turntables. Here is a listing of what some of the $2000 and up turntables use for platters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First off, most tables under $1000 retail are made of spun glass. bright harsh sounding resonating glass platter. Turntables don't come any cheaper. Sheer Audio has a Acrylic replacement acrylic platter provides tighter, deeper, and more accurate sound reproduction. The highs are cleaned up and resonances at higher frequencies are eliminated.
Once you get into the $1000 to $1500 range of tables all the platters are made of solid acrylic. Even platters of this material has some major weakness's. Acrylic doen't handle energy very well. It reflects the energy up back into the stylist. Both frequency extremes are stepped down. High end because of the channeled energy and low end because of the weight and rotational inertia. Some companies like Teres will add lead shot weights or other companies will add gold layered pucks to the platter to compensate for this. Linn's LP12 is a marvel of engineering. LP12 will hang onto a note a little longer than most tables resulting in a longer decay. Acrylic cuts off notes rather short unless its heavy and weighted enough to compensate some of it.
Now we get to the $2000 and up turntables. With the exception of ClearAudio and Basis tables all turntables use several materials combined or in layers for the best performance. If you read the manufactures websites they do explain whats in their platters.
Mitchel uses proprietary self-damping compound of
carbon/vinyl -loaded acrylic.
Kuzma - STABI XL
platter is a sandwich construction of aluminium and
acrylic plates screwed together in pre-stressed form to damp all unwanted vibration
Kuzma - Stabi Reference
This is constructed from two plates, each plate being made from a sandwich construction of two 10 mm aluminium plates, separated by an acrylic plate clamped together with prestressed, non-magnetic, stainless steel screws
Bluenote Bellagio Turntable
The 40mm thick platter is actually two 20mm thick black rectified polyvinyl discs. 16 gold plated weights increase the peripheral weight (and rotational stability). They also serve to dissipate vibrations.
Acoustic Signature - Final Tool
Ruggedly built, with precision machined, 24lb damped aluminum platter
Nottingham Hyperspace
The 'mat' on the interface between the record and Hyperspace is a 25mm thick
graphite platter - which, when married to the soft alloy underneath and coupled by the three anti-expansion rubber rings round the platter, forms a very inert combination indeed
VPI/ARIES TURNTABLE
in an HW-19 sized package. The platter, comprised of an
acrylic/aluminum/lead sandwich
TNT Mk.V Hotrod
materials comprising the platter (aluminum and
lead-filled acrylic) have been carefully matched to damp unwanted vibrations in the vinyl disc
Teres
Solid Acrylic with lead shot filled
Red Point
Solid PVC and Drilled alumunum/PVC
That laser turntable is quite interesting but I'm in no way interested in my analog sound touching an ounce of digital.
I can't wait to get away from transistors and build my Bottlehead tube preamp and phono preamp.
I was looking over the weight of alumunum and stainless steel. Looks like stainless is twice as heavy at half the thickness. I have no idea what the sound properties of the two is or the resonance so maybe I should stick with Alumunum since thats the common material used by $2000 and up turntables. Here is a listing of what some of the $2000 and up turntables use for platters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First off, most tables under $1000 retail are made of spun glass. bright harsh sounding resonating glass platter. Turntables don't come any cheaper. Sheer Audio has a Acrylic replacement acrylic platter provides tighter, deeper, and more accurate sound reproduction. The highs are cleaned up and resonances at higher frequencies are eliminated.
Once you get into the $1000 to $1500 range of tables all the platters are made of solid acrylic. Even platters of this material has some major weakness's. Acrylic doen't handle energy very well. It reflects the energy up back into the stylist. Both frequency extremes are stepped down. High end because of the channeled energy and low end because of the weight and rotational inertia. Some companies like Teres will add lead shot weights or other companies will add gold layered pucks to the platter to compensate for this. Linn's LP12 is a marvel of engineering. LP12 will hang onto a note a little longer than most tables resulting in a longer decay. Acrylic cuts off notes rather short unless its heavy and weighted enough to compensate some of it.
Now we get to the $2000 and up turntables. With the exception of ClearAudio and Basis tables all turntables use several materials combined or in layers for the best performance. If you read the manufactures websites they do explain whats in their platters.
Mitchel uses proprietary self-damping compound of
carbon/vinyl -loaded acrylic.
Kuzma - STABI XL
platter is a sandwich construction of aluminium and
acrylic plates screwed together in pre-stressed form to damp all unwanted vibration
Kuzma - Stabi Reference
This is constructed from two plates, each plate being made from a sandwich construction of two 10 mm aluminium plates, separated by an acrylic plate clamped together with prestressed, non-magnetic, stainless steel screws
Bluenote Bellagio Turntable
The 40mm thick platter is actually two 20mm thick black rectified polyvinyl discs. 16 gold plated weights increase the peripheral weight (and rotational stability). They also serve to dissipate vibrations.
Acoustic Signature - Final Tool
Ruggedly built, with precision machined, 24lb damped aluminum platter
Nottingham Hyperspace
The 'mat' on the interface between the record and Hyperspace is a 25mm thick
graphite platter - which, when married to the soft alloy underneath and coupled by the three anti-expansion rubber rings round the platter, forms a very inert combination indeed
VPI/ARIES TURNTABLE
in an HW-19 sized package. The platter, comprised of an
acrylic/aluminum/lead sandwich
TNT Mk.V Hotrod
materials comprising the platter (aluminum and
lead-filled acrylic) have been carefully matched to damp unwanted vibrations in the vinyl disc
Teres
Solid Acrylic with lead shot filled
Red Point
Solid PVC and Drilled alumunum/PVC
I'm planning to make my platter sandwich comprising 1.5" aluminium base filled with leadshots/oil bolted together with several layers of 10 mm acrylic (Redpoint style). Bolts make the layers replacement experiment possible, and provide good path for vibrations to be sunken in leadshots bath. Recently I'm trying to reduce the aluminium base machining cost compartible with Teres ledfilled platter.
Cheers,
Michael
Cheers,
Michael
NOTTINGHAM
Hi,
The idea of using graphite as a material for a TT mat was given to Tom Fletcher by me after I reported the excellent results I had with this on my own Mentor Reference TT.
It has the added advantage of effectively ridding static charges of the records.
The soft alloy you are referring to is actually Zamac,an alu alloy.
The outer rubber rings we used already on the Dias TT,these deaden the platter very effectively without compromising the springiness of the platter in the vertical plane.
Cheers,
Hi,
The idea of using graphite as a material for a TT mat was given to Tom Fletcher by me after I reported the excellent results I had with this on my own Mentor Reference TT.
It has the added advantage of effectively ridding static charges of the records.
The soft alloy you are referring to is actually Zamac,an alu alloy.
The outer rubber rings we used already on the Dias TT,these deaden the platter very effectively without compromising the springiness of the platter in the vertical plane.
Cheers,
NottingHam platters
Fdegrove!
Awsome, someone that knows how the mystical NottingHam platters are made. I've been very curious how they did it. There simply is not much information on the ASL website explaining this. I have a few questions
What exactly is this graphite? Is this some sort of thick matt? Its obviously been stamped/milled with a pattern. Woven pattern? I think its around an 1/2" thick.
Also, the alumunum Zamac. The website of online metals didn't have this material. It does have a listing of differant alumunum's offered. Here is the list below. Could this be one of them?
Aluminum 6061-T6 Bare Plate 1" thick weights 14 lbs
17-4 STAINLESS STEEL PLATE
T-302 STAINLESS STEEL PLATE 1/2" thick weights 20lbs
T-304 STAINLESS STEEL PLATE
T-316 STAINLESS STEEL PLATE
T-321 STAINLESS STEEL PLATE
T-347 STAINLESS STEEL PLATE
T-410 STAINLESS STEEL PLATE
Maybe I should be looking for another website? Do you know of a website that sells Zamac by the raw plate? Know what it weights?
Does this have a higher damping factor than either Alumunum or Stainles Steel?
Originally my platter I'm designing was going to consist of this. starting from the bottom layer it goes...
T-302 STAINLESS STEEL PLATE 1/2" thick weights 20lbs
PVC black 2 1/2" have no idea what this weights
I wanted to build a sandwiched layered platter consisting of.....
Aluminum 6061-T6 Bare Plate 1" thick weights 14 lbs
PVC black 1" (weights? I will have to call Professional Plastics)
Aluminum 6061-T6 Bare Plate 1" thick weights 14 lbs
I didn't think having a top layer of solid alumunum would sound good. Something about how the vinyl reacts pressed against the Alumunum. Energy. But VPI does this with their new TNT table using some sort of (carbon? graphite?) platter mat.
Fdegrove!
Awsome, someone that knows how the mystical NottingHam platters are made. I've been very curious how they did it. There simply is not much information on the ASL website explaining this. I have a few questions
What exactly is this graphite? Is this some sort of thick matt? Its obviously been stamped/milled with a pattern. Woven pattern? I think its around an 1/2" thick.
Also, the alumunum Zamac. The website of online metals didn't have this material. It does have a listing of differant alumunum's offered. Here is the list below. Could this be one of them?
Aluminum 6061-T6 Bare Plate 1" thick weights 14 lbs
17-4 STAINLESS STEEL PLATE
T-302 STAINLESS STEEL PLATE 1/2" thick weights 20lbs
T-304 STAINLESS STEEL PLATE
T-316 STAINLESS STEEL PLATE
T-321 STAINLESS STEEL PLATE
T-347 STAINLESS STEEL PLATE
T-410 STAINLESS STEEL PLATE
Maybe I should be looking for another website? Do you know of a website that sells Zamac by the raw plate? Know what it weights?
Does this have a higher damping factor than either Alumunum or Stainles Steel?
Originally my platter I'm designing was going to consist of this. starting from the bottom layer it goes...
T-302 STAINLESS STEEL PLATE 1/2" thick weights 20lbs
PVC black 2 1/2" have no idea what this weights
I wanted to build a sandwiched layered platter consisting of.....
Aluminum 6061-T6 Bare Plate 1" thick weights 14 lbs
PVC black 1" (weights? I will have to call Professional Plastics)
Aluminum 6061-T6 Bare Plate 1" thick weights 14 lbs
I didn't think having a top layer of solid alumunum would sound good. Something about how the vinyl reacts pressed against the Alumunum. Energy. But VPI does this with their new TNT table using some sort of (carbon? graphite?) platter mat.
TT
Hi,
Re the graphite platter.
It is indeed a weave of graphite impregnated carbon but that is all I can tell you about it.
Zamac contains a high % of zinc (Zn) and its' Q factor will depend on the relation between the two of these metals.
I couldn't find much usefull info for you either but it certainly is not one you mentioned in your posts.
It does.
Cheers,
Hi,
Re the graphite platter.
It is indeed a weave of graphite impregnated carbon but that is all I can tell you about it.
Zamac contains a high % of zinc (Zn) and its' Q factor will depend on the relation between the two of these metals.
I couldn't find much usefull info for you either but it certainly is not one you mentioned in your posts.
It does.
Cheers,
DIY Turntable schematic
I added curves to the front of the plynth to reduce symetrical design to eliminate some of the standing vibration waves. I would think doing even more would be better. Not sure what to do design wise to one of the back corners. As you can see I designed the plynth based on common stock 12" x 12" materials. Platter also. I don't know what the weight of Acylic is but I do know that the alunimum is 10lbs each 1" thick plate. Stainless steel is 22lbs per 1/2" plate. Should I change the stainless steel on the platter to alunimun 1"? That would change the weight to only 10lbs and the 2" thick PVC have no idea what that weights. I can find out.
Now I need to consider how to put together the pieces for the platter. Glue or screw? I didn't want to screw the two layers together from the top for that would show. I figure have the machine shop drill holes from the bottom through the stainless steel so the treads are threaded into the PVC. PVC that tough?
Also, should I still damp this platter with leadshot? heavy enough?
I just called Professional Plastics and they only have in stock
1" thick Black PVC 12" x 12" for $20.10 weighing 7.5 lbs each.
I was told that they do no make black pvc larger than 1" thick. All other thickness's are grey. I don't know about the idea of having a 2" thick aluminum bottom plate with a 1" black PVC top plate for the platter. I know I would definately have to dampen the alumunum from ringing. Buy that damping black rubber style damping material (cant remember the name) and press it into some premade grooves in the bottom of the platter. Maybe machine some 3" diameter cavaties into the top of the aluminum so leadshot can be poured into it. THen cap it off with the 1" thick black PVC.
I added curves to the front of the plynth to reduce symetrical design to eliminate some of the standing vibration waves. I would think doing even more would be better. Not sure what to do design wise to one of the back corners. As you can see I designed the plynth based on common stock 12" x 12" materials. Platter also. I don't know what the weight of Acylic is but I do know that the alunimum is 10lbs each 1" thick plate. Stainless steel is 22lbs per 1/2" plate. Should I change the stainless steel on the platter to alunimun 1"? That would change the weight to only 10lbs and the 2" thick PVC have no idea what that weights. I can find out.
Now I need to consider how to put together the pieces for the platter. Glue or screw? I didn't want to screw the two layers together from the top for that would show. I figure have the machine shop drill holes from the bottom through the stainless steel so the treads are threaded into the PVC. PVC that tough?
Also, should I still damp this platter with leadshot? heavy enough?
I just called Professional Plastics and they only have in stock
1" thick Black PVC 12" x 12" for $20.10 weighing 7.5 lbs each.
I was told that they do no make black pvc larger than 1" thick. All other thickness's are grey. I don't know about the idea of having a 2" thick aluminum bottom plate with a 1" black PVC top plate for the platter. I know I would definately have to dampen the alumunum from ringing. Buy that damping black rubber style damping material (cant remember the name) and press it into some premade grooves in the bottom of the platter. Maybe machine some 3" diameter cavaties into the top of the aluminum so leadshot can be poured into it. THen cap it off with the 1" thick black PVC.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
SPRING (I WISH)
Hi,
Peter,
I'll give it a try cutting corners and some walls too.
The important matter here is to have no,or as little as possible springiness in the vertical plane.
A stylus tracking a groove has a more or less compliant suspension already and in order to extract all possible information from the groove it needs a well defined and as solid as possible environment as we can give it.
That is nothing but it's own tracking movements should disturb it.
According to Newtons' laws anything that can move loses energy,hence the more solid the vertical plane is defined the less energy will be lost at the platter stylus interface and this will maximize information retrieval,S/N and dynamic range (not the same as S/N as some people assume.)
Considering the entire playback system we should only have three single points of movement:
-The platter bearing.
-The cantilever (ideally near vertically mounted a la London Decca and some Ikeda designs even have the tip fixed to the coils)
-The tonearm,ideally a unipivot or,some argue,an airbearing design.
Now that I dragged you all through this let me give you a simple analogy:
Imagine you were given a sheet of paper and a pen,told to put your sheet on a pillow and write a phrase.
I think anyone would baulk at such a task...in fact it would be near impossible to scribble anything at all onto it.
Why is this so hard?Quite simply all the energy exerced by the movement of your hand would be absorbed by the springiness of the pillow.
Conversely (just to show how hard it is to design a good tonearm) were I to give you a solid table surface,sheet and pen and again you were asked to write it would be much easier...but you would also feel that the table is throwing energy back into your wrist.
Why?
Action and reaction.(thank you mr.Newton)
Now if I tell you that a turntable needs to write to a stylus at constant speed would you believe me?
Making a perfect analogue playback system isn't easy as you can see.
If it's any consolation...a CDP is certainly no better off.
Enjoy your vinyl,
Hi,
Peter,
I'll give it a try cutting corners and some walls too.
The important matter here is to have no,or as little as possible springiness in the vertical plane.
A stylus tracking a groove has a more or less compliant suspension already and in order to extract all possible information from the groove it needs a well defined and as solid as possible environment as we can give it.
That is nothing but it's own tracking movements should disturb it.
According to Newtons' laws anything that can move loses energy,hence the more solid the vertical plane is defined the less energy will be lost at the platter stylus interface and this will maximize information retrieval,S/N and dynamic range (not the same as S/N as some people assume.)
Considering the entire playback system we should only have three single points of movement:
-The platter bearing.
-The cantilever (ideally near vertically mounted a la London Decca and some Ikeda designs even have the tip fixed to the coils)
-The tonearm,ideally a unipivot or,some argue,an airbearing design.
Now that I dragged you all through this let me give you a simple analogy:
Imagine you were given a sheet of paper and a pen,told to put your sheet on a pillow and write a phrase.
I think anyone would baulk at such a task...in fact it would be near impossible to scribble anything at all onto it.
Why is this so hard?Quite simply all the energy exerced by the movement of your hand would be absorbed by the springiness of the pillow.
Conversely (just to show how hard it is to design a good tonearm) were I to give you a solid table surface,sheet and pen and again you were asked to write it would be much easier...but you would also feel that the table is throwing energy back into your wrist.
Why?
Action and reaction.(thank you mr.Newton)
Now if I tell you that a turntable needs to write to a stylus at constant speed would you believe me?
Making a perfect analogue playback system isn't easy as you can see.
If it's any consolation...a CDP is certainly no better off.
Enjoy your vinyl,
Adjustment
Im not sure if this forum is posting my drawings or the Link im adding is accessable to you all but I will try again. Oh, 100k limit on pics? Hmmm
Here is a modification to my original design. After reviewing material costs and weights I figure this would be optimal.
THe shape of the plynth would be visably pleasing if it has curves all the way around so I changed that. As you can see on the drawing I added the Racing Cones. Also I changed the platter and plynth from 12" x 12" to 13" x 13". From examinating the Teres plans and website I see that all the platters are half an inch oversized of a vinyl record.
If anyone sees how I may do this project better please comment. Any advice sure is appreciated. I still don't know the best way to couple the platter layers together. I do know that I need to buy an Oracle Speed strobe disk to glue onto the bottom of the platter. The Teres motor requires this for speed control.
For some reason the forum will not let me attach a file to my mssg. I tried resaving the 600k bitmap file to a 8k zip and it still didn't work. dang (
Im not sure if this forum is posting my drawings or the Link im adding is accessable to you all but I will try again. Oh, 100k limit on pics? Hmmm
Here is a modification to my original design. After reviewing material costs and weights I figure this would be optimal.
THe shape of the plynth would be visably pleasing if it has curves all the way around so I changed that. As you can see on the drawing I added the Racing Cones. Also I changed the platter and plynth from 12" x 12" to 13" x 13". From examinating the Teres plans and website I see that all the platters are half an inch oversized of a vinyl record.
If anyone sees how I may do this project better please comment. Any advice sure is appreciated. I still don't know the best way to couple the platter layers together. I do know that I need to buy an Oracle Speed strobe disk to glue onto the bottom of the platter. The Teres motor requires this for speed control.
For some reason the forum will not let me attach a file to my mssg. I tried resaving the 600k bitmap file to a 8k zip and it still didn't work. dang (
Thanks for the suggestions
Thanks Fdegrove
I called a few metal companies that I found online. One was exotic metals. The normal metal suppliers only carry normal stock.
They have never heard of Zamac, Corrian or anything impreggnated with lead. The exotic supplier had to take a mssg and said they would email me back with an answer. I felt like they brushed me off. Seems like I may just have to stick to PVC, Acrylic and Aluminum.
Thanks Fdegrove
I called a few metal companies that I found online. One was exotic metals. The normal metal suppliers only carry normal stock.
They have never heard of Zamac, Corrian or anything impreggnated with lead. The exotic supplier had to take a mssg and said they would email me back with an answer. I felt like they brushed me off. Seems like I may just have to stick to PVC, Acrylic and Aluminum.
Hi, StylinLP
IMHO, the best way to connect the layers together is bolting, like Redpoint platter. The bolts provide the path for micro vibrations induced by stylus to be sunken within the heavy damped metal disc. Don't think it is a good idea to make thread in the plastic layer: the firm contact to the metal is under the bolt head only and the bolt is rather loose in the long hole within the metal disc.
In addition, the plastic thread is prone to cracks when bolt is ocasionally overtorqued.
I stuck with the lead loaded aluminium subplatter bolted toghether with acrylic upper layer, as you can see on attached picture.
Cheers,
Michael
IMHO, the best way to connect the layers together is bolting, like Redpoint platter. The bolts provide the path for micro vibrations induced by stylus to be sunken within the heavy damped metal disc. Don't think it is a good idea to make thread in the plastic layer: the firm contact to the metal is under the bolt head only and the bolt is rather loose in the long hole within the metal disc.
In addition, the plastic thread is prone to cracks when bolt is ocasionally overtorqued.
I stuck with the lead loaded aluminium subplatter bolted toghether with acrylic upper layer, as you can see on attached picture.
Cheers,
Michael
Attachments
Livemusic's drawing
Mike,
Your drawing is so detailed it made me wonder if this is a cad-cam file or print for machining? If this is the case - can you share?
I didn't want to enter the thread just to say me too, but I have been nursing a similar idea to Stylinglp and yourself to use the Teres bearing and have a platter made that is somewhat more like the redpoint design.
Regards
Mike
Mike,
Your drawing is so detailed it made me wonder if this is a cad-cam file or print for machining? If this is the case - can you share?
I didn't want to enter the thread just to say me too, but I have been nursing a similar idea to Stylinglp and yourself to use the Teres bearing and have a platter made that is somewhat more like the redpoint design.
Regards
Mike
How many bolts
Nicely done Livemusic. That platter looks prety close to what RedPoint did. I have to ask thou, why so many bolts? Would'nt the platter work just as well with half as many bolts? Im trying to cut the work for my friend down some.
Also, I really didnt like the idea ofthe bolt holes showing on the top of the platter. What about this idea... 1" alumunum base plate with cavaties on top for minerial oil coated leadshot. 2nd layer would be 1" PVC drilled and screwed to the bottom aluminum plate. Then another 1" thick PVC plate "glued" to the 2nd layer covering the bolt holes.
Or just a 1" thick aluminum bottom layer with a 2" PVC layer drilled and screwed with Brass or Aluminum or PVC caps filling in or covering the bolt holes.
Or some sort of graphite 1/2" thick mat laying on top like NottingHam does?
Im basically trying to find an alternative means from having bolt holes in the top of the platter. I'm really impressed with Chris's Tube Haven design. Really inovative how he built his plynth. He just needs a platter like the one we are trying to design!
Nicely done Livemusic. That platter looks prety close to what RedPoint did. I have to ask thou, why so many bolts? Would'nt the platter work just as well with half as many bolts? Im trying to cut the work for my friend down some.
Also, I really didnt like the idea ofthe bolt holes showing on the top of the platter. What about this idea... 1" alumunum base plate with cavaties on top for minerial oil coated leadshot. 2nd layer would be 1" PVC drilled and screwed to the bottom aluminum plate. Then another 1" thick PVC plate "glued" to the 2nd layer covering the bolt holes.
Or just a 1" thick aluminum bottom layer with a 2" PVC layer drilled and screwed with Brass or Aluminum or PVC caps filling in or covering the bolt holes.
Or some sort of graphite 1/2" thick mat laying on top like NottingHam does?
Im basically trying to find an alternative means from having bolt holes in the top of the platter. I'm really impressed with Chris's Tube Haven design. Really inovative how he built his plynth. He just needs a platter like the one we are trying to design!
RE:HOW MANY BOLTS
Hi,
Redpoint uses constraint layer damping for the platter?
I would never use that technique on a platter.
For the plinth that's fine, but don't forget that a platter will need to spin at a constant speed so anything like that would make it behave excentric to the bearing creating spurious movements and noise.
Have you tried suppliers on the web?
Zamac is such a common alloy that is surprises me...most engine blocs are made out of it now.
Livemusic,
If you allow me saying so,don't make your bearing and spindle out of one piece.
That would effectively couple all bearing noise to the record.
StylinLP,
If you must use bolts then put them on the bottom of the platter,special inserts exist for softer materials wherein you can than screw bolts.
It's the same thing that you use for making screws fit to a brick wall if you see what I mean.
You just drill a slightly undersized hole and then gently smash the head of the insert with a rubber mallet.
BTW,have you ever seen a Mentor or Mentor Reference TT with its' split platter design from close by?
That works extremely well!
Happy building folks,
Hi,
Redpoint uses constraint layer damping for the platter?
I would never use that technique on a platter.
For the plinth that's fine, but don't forget that a platter will need to spin at a constant speed so anything like that would make it behave excentric to the bearing creating spurious movements and noise.
Have you tried suppliers on the web?
Zamac is such a common alloy that is surprises me...most engine blocs are made out of it now.
Livemusic,
If you allow me saying so,don't make your bearing and spindle out of one piece.
That would effectively couple all bearing noise to the record.
StylinLP,
If you must use bolts then put them on the bottom of the platter,special inserts exist for softer materials wherein you can than screw bolts.
It's the same thing that you use for making screws fit to a brick wall if you see what I mean.
You just drill a slightly undersized hole and then gently smash the head of the insert with a rubber mallet.
BTW,have you ever seen a Mentor or Mentor Reference TT with its' split platter design from close by?
That works extremely well!
Happy building folks,
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