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Old 19th December 2006, 01:55 AM   #1
rdr is offline rdr  United States
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Default Well I am now a believer

For years I have not had a cartridge. My kids broke all of them. They are grown and out of the house so I got a Shure M97xE, not a real high end cartridge. I have just completed a major system upgrade, I wanted to listen to my old records. I just got a Denon 2930ci DVD player (SACD and DVD audio) and I have always had a CD player. I was digital guy and poo-pooed analoque. Well no more! I am astounded at the sound of vinyl. What I was missing!
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Old 19th December 2006, 02:02 AM   #2
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Old 19th December 2006, 02:21 AM   #3
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Quote:
Shure M97xE, not a real high end cartridge.
I have never heard that one - but I was told that it is very close to the V15VxMR that I had.

I have come to love the denon dl 103 very much, and sold as a consequence all the shure cartridges I had.

Quote:
I am astounded at the sound of vinyl. What I was missing!
I know this reaction.
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Old 19th December 2006, 02:47 AM   #4
rdr is offline rdr  United States
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The M97xE is very similar to the M15 type V, which I owned years ago. I cut my teeth on analoque in the 60's and the best cartridge I ever heard was an EMT back then.

I had all but given up on vinyl years ago, but was never happy with the sound of digital. I always thought the bad sound was my system or my ears. Just recently I decided to do something about it. I got my system to the point that it could not be faulted, and still, even DVD-A and SACD did not sound right. I got the wax out of my ears. Then I got a cartdridge. That is when I re-discovered vinyl.
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Old 19th December 2006, 03:43 AM   #5
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Groovy!!

You didn't mention your table. I would guess since you either pulled it out of moth balls, or bought a yardsale special just to listen to your "old" records (I could very well be wrong), you are probably listening to mid-level analog by todays standards.

Many tweeks, and there resulting smiles, await you

Congrats..enjoy the ride.

-Casey
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Old 19th December 2006, 08:53 AM   #6
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I have just experienced the same thing- I picked up a Thorens TD150 at the weekend, from eBay.

The listing did not have any info. in it, but I looked at the photos, and decided it was a good gamble.

It turned out to have a Linn basik Plus tonearm, and a Dynavector Karat 23Rs MC cartridge.

The sound is stunning, even through a low-end, SS amp with just an MM input- I can't wait to sort out a decent amp.

James
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Old 19th December 2006, 11:44 AM   #7
rdr is offline rdr  United States
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Here is the setup:

Cartridge: Shure M97xE
Arm: Shure SME 16"
Table: Technics SP-15 direct drive Quartz, on 3/4" acrylic and isolation dampers
CD/DVDs: Denon 2630ci
Preamp: Dyna PAS modified
XOver: Marchand electronic 4 way:
Power amps:
Sub: Hafler 200
Woofer: Hafler 220
Mid: Hafler 220
Tweeter: Hafler 120
Speakers:
Sub: (2) Hartley 24 in an opposed compound configuration in a 20 cu ft enclosure, xover 60 Hz LP 24 db LR
Woofers: Dayton 8" aluminum in sealed enclosures, xover 60 Hz HP 12 db BW 12 db + acoustic rolloff; LP 800 Hz 48 db LR
Mids: Accuton C44-8 ceramics, xover 800 Hz HP/6000 Hz LP 48 db LR
Tweeters: Ionovacs: xover 6000 Hz 48 db HP

I would be astonished if a different turntable or arm would be audible. I'm sure this will be in disagreement with some here. A better (more expensive) cartridge might well be audible, but the price/performance ratio curve looks lousy. As you can surmise, I put my effort and money into the weak link - the speakers.
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Old 19th December 2006, 12:31 PM   #8
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Prepare to be astonished

Something as simple as replacing that "trampoline" of a rubber mat on your table with a felt "Discwasher" style one, along with the addition of a record clamp/weight will make it seem as though you upgraded your cartridge. Think of it this way..you wouldn't set your subs/speakers on pillows would you? Of course not. Well, other than scale, placing your album on a springy surface is the same thing. Your dealing with a transducer coupling to the physical world, and any "give" will cause energy loss..in this case energy that never makes it to the cartridge. You have to remember, that the footprint of your stylus is so small, that the "Pounds per Square Inch" at the contact point is tremendous.

Do yourself a favor, and try it. This one very simple mod will either prove or disprove what I'm saying...I know what outcome I'm betting on

There are dozens of econo mods you can do to improve things.

-Casey
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Old 19th December 2006, 06:01 PM   #9
rdr is offline rdr  United States
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I'm willing to try easy econo mods. Is the prescription here to decouple the record platter from airborne transmission? The Technics platter mat is rather hard and non-resilient. Is the suggestion to substitute a more resilient mat? Weighting the record and damping it's vibration with a resilient mat would change it's resonance and could have an affect. Is that what we are talking about?
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Old 19th December 2006, 06:12 PM   #10
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Default dare we even mention

dude, you just entered a whole new world of tweakitis


belt vs direct drive

suspended vs rigid coupling

arm / interconnect wiring

ad naseum, infinitum

after the investments you describe in the speakers, your front end is now definitely the weak link.
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