Need advice on old turntables.

[mrfeedback]

My GF Likes It....

Hey, I am happy with the SL-1600 and V-15 mk111 for ten bucks, DD cogging or no cogging.
In addition to plenty of cheapy and mid-fi, I also have an SL-10, and a Garrard 401 that will get my attention someday.

Eric, The Not Stupid Enough To Spend A Years Savings On A TT.

 

[mrfeedback]

Dave, the V-15 is VERY sensitive to electrical loading.
When it is right, they are not at all bad I reckon.

Eric.

 

[fdegrove]

WELL WORTH THE ATTENTION

Hi,

Garrard 401 that will get my attention someday.

What are you waiting for?

One good oldie my friend!

Build a biological environment for it and will cover your ears with heavenly music.

Cheers,

 

[planet10]

Re: Out With The Trash

I think I might keep the cartridge though.

The arm might be worth keeping too

dave

 

[fdegrove]

TECHNIX TT

Hi,

He'll end up keeping the cogger,I tell you.

Ciao,

 

[roddyama]

Hope Springs Eternal...

Maybe I can salvage it.

Rodd Yamashita

 

[planet10]

Re: Hope Springs Eternal...

Maybe I can salvage it.

ROTFLOL

dave

 

[Brett]

Re: Re: Need advice on old turntables.

And carefully selected European, Canadian, and US tables ate even the most expensive DDs* for breakfast (we always had a big Denon and Technics around to destroy with our budget belt-drives). *(the one exception is probably the fake marble Kenwood that came with no arm -- it wasn't too bad).

I disagree. A properly modified and set up SP10 will handily outdo many high end belt drives.

The Kenwood you were referring to, was the Trio L-07D.
<img src=http://www.angelfire.com/music4/audio_visions/gallery/kenwood_l07.jpg>
Yum.

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/oldeworldehtml/triol07dtt.html

Cheers

 

[halojoy]

AS you can see I have am no expert on Turntables.
Now I know somewhat more thanks to you all.

One thing I WANT to point out.
It has already been mentioned.
However good and expensive your TurnTable ever might be
it is the PICKUP that that will produce the sounds.

So a good pickup is of outmost importance for Vinyl Playing.
Also be sure to adjust the pickup correctly!
The force the needle has unto the groove and such things.

I am sure there is other Threads adressing this subject.
Phono RIAA amplifiers has been covered several times.

Last but an essential factor is that you have Vinyl Records.
And that you can enjoy them.
Without them, I am 100% sure nothing else matters.

/halojoy - music lover

 

[planet10]

Re: Re: Re: Need advice on old turntables.

I disagree. A properly modified and set up SP10 will handily outdo many high end belt drives.

Ok i'll bite -- what mods, because a stock one -- properly set-up -- sure doesn't.

The Kenwood you were referring to, was the Trio L-07D.

That's not the one i was referring too, never saw that one before.

dave

 

[planet10]

So a good pickup is of outmost importance for Vinyl Playing.

Ah but,
a pickup cannot do it's job properly
unless its body is held
perfectly motionless
with respect to the groove it is trying to trace

this is the job of the TT & the arm,
and even a modestly good pickup (ie Grado FTE+)
when allowed to do its job
will handily outperform pickups
orders of magnitude more dear
that aren't so allowed

I sold many an expensive TT with this amazing $20 USD cartridge
(or course to have the user come back to spend more another day)

dave

 

[Brett]

However good and expensive your TurnTable ever might be
it is the PICKUP that that will produce the sounds.

So a good pickup is of outmost importance for Vinyl Playing.

Incorrect. All the cartridge does is transduce the relative motion between it's body and the groove. If the TT and arm are not doing thier job properly it is merely transducing a distorted signal.

The TT is the nost important piece of the vinyl playback system, followed by the arm, then the cart.

Also be sure to adjust the pickup correctly!

Absolutely: geometry, azimuth, SRA/VTA, tracking force and antiskate. Some of these adjustments are interdependent, so it might take several iterations to get right.

Cheers

 

[Brett]

dagnabit dave, beat me to it.

I agree about the Grado FTE+, a very good cart for the money, esp in a great rig. I had one as the backup for mt Decca for a long time until I loaned it to my mate Steve who used it in a Merrilled AR (which I also gave him). Never saw it again.

Do you know how the current colour series relaye to the FTE+?

Cheers

 

[halojoy]

--------------------------
this is the job of the TT & the arm,
and even a modestly good pickup (ie Grado FTE+)
--------------------------
I sold many an expensive TT with this amazing $20 USD cartridge
(or course to have the user come back to spend more another day)

dave

I think that confirms that a bad pickup can spoil the whole thing
as can a bad uninteresting Record.

A modestly good pickup is not bad.
$20 USD is real a bargain.
I would even be prapared to spend $50-100 on a good pickup.

The weakest link always set the limit.
Can be body, turntable, arm, pickup or the Record itself.

/halo - still turning

 

[planet10]

dagnabit

Is that Oz? A new word for me.

dave, beat me to it.

Oh but mine was in "halo" and yours was very complimentary -- and the point cannot be over emphasized.

Do you know how the current colour series relaye to the FTE+?

I don't know that the current line has a direct replacement. With fewer, but higher quality, TT sales i think they have probably just dropped the extreme low end of the line-up. The needle doctor lists a Grado Black at $40 USD. I guess given inflation that would be pretty close. (i have my eye on one of the wooden body ones).

dave

 

[planet10]

The needle doctor lists a Grado Black at $40 USD.

The Grado green are the best 15% of the Blacks -- probably worth spending the extra $20 on.

dave

 

[chrisb]

Re: Re: Re: Need advice on old turntables.

I disagree. A properly modified and set up SP10 will handily outdo many high end belt drives.

The Kenwood you were referring to, was the Trio L-07D.
<img src=http://www.angelfire.com/music4/audio_visions/gallery/kenwood_l07.jpg>
Yum.

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/oldeworldehtml/triol07dtt.html

Cheers

Brett - sorry to contradict you, but between Planet 10 & myself we've heard or owned the following over the years:

Owned:
ARX,stock arm, cartridges from SHure M75Ed to V15II
Duals from 1210,1214, 1218, 1229, 701, usually Shure M91 series or ADC cartridges
Ariston Audio/SME 3009II/V15III
Kenwood KD500/SME3009/ V15III,Sonus Blue, ADCVLM & XLM
Kenwood KD500/Formula 4 unipivot /Supex900 super MC
Kenwood KD500/Decca Arm/Decca MkV cartridge
(you tell me why this didn't sound great, should have kept the arm/pickup )
Rega 2/ Lustre arm, Nagoka, Grado & other cartridges
Oracle Delphi, (OK, I'm buggered if I can remember the names of the several arms/cartridges on this one)
Linn Axis/Basik arm/K9 (Audio Technica)
Linn LP12/Lingo/Akito/K9
(Actually virtually every version of LP12 and factory arm except the most recent Cirkus, Trampolin, etc)
Rega P3/RB250/Sumiko Blue Point Special, AudioNote IQII

Somewhere along the line, also ran Grace 707 arms, Dyanvector Ruby MC and several models of Grado pickups

Extensively listened to:
all of the above in different systems,
Mitch Cotter DD table - highly modified Denon Direct drive
Oracle Alexandria
Most consumer models of Denon, Marantz, Technics, Sony, BIC direct and belt drives from mid 70's to late 80's
VPI
Most Thorens from 124 to 165, with stock and numerous aftermarket arms
Garrards ( real Garrards 301, 401 etc) to the changers, Zero100 etc.
I'm sure I've missed a few

With the exception of the long defunct Cotter table, I've yet to hear any direct drive that can sonically match a good belt drive, while the KD500 with a damping mat or platter treatment was pretty decent, the stock arms were nothing great.

There are literally tonnes of still decent sounding used TT out there, you don't even to look at E-bay - start with your local pawn/thrift/repair shops, then check for trade-ins at your hi-fi shop. (Hint, if they don't have a used department, look elsewhere to deal)

For the bucks, a good used Rega 2 with a decent MM (Grado/Goldring, etc) would be hard to beat;
Another sleeper was a model of Technics belt drive (SL23?). Clean the belt, clean & lubricate the bearing, and damp the platter with dynamat , and you'll have decent tunes for cheap bucks.

 

[RADIOLEE]

The real story on turntables

Having perused this thread briefly-----


Find yourself a Marantz TT530 on eBay--

It's direct drive AND, I repeat, AND


LINEAR TRACKING!!!


That's the way records were cut........


True listening satisfaction.


Peace


Lee

 

[roddyama]

Is that Oz? A new word for me.

There’s Grand Pappy Amos and the girls and the boys,
and the family known as the Real McCoys

Amos: “Dagnabit Luke, where’s that Papino”

Rodd Yamashita

 

[chrisb]

Synergy, kids

Incorrect. All the cartridge does is transduce the relative motion between it's body and the groove. If the TT and arm are not doing thier job properly it is merely transducing a distorted signal.

The TT is the nost important piece of the vinyl playback system, followed by the arm, then the cart.
Absolutely: geometry, azimuth, SRA/VTA, tracking force and antiskate. Some of these adjustments are interdependent, so it might take several iterations to get right.

Cheers

One reason why 'tables so easily got a bad rap in the early days of "perfect sound forever" was the dearth of expertise, even in the high priced salons of the day in setting them up.
Manufacturers didn't aid the cause by contradictory instructions or polemic attitudes. One famous maker (still in business) long refuted the importance of VTA adjustment in arm design. "Just use one of my cartridges, and you won't need it" (not a direct quote)
Also interesting were the different tracking alignments(azimuth).
Set up with the manufacturer's protractor, then check with the Denneson, and it'd be out!
Of course with an air-bearing parallel tracking arm this would be unnecessary

Particularly with suspended designs ( Thorens, AR, or notoriously finicky early Oracles and LP12s) correct setup took time and care, but paid off in spades.
Now as then, a high performance (but not necessarily expensive) 'table is a SYSTEM; the parameters of each component must be fully understood and optimized to the compliment of the others.