Hi there!
I am an audiophile on a tight budget... (aren't most of us?) and I want to upgrade my system!
This is what I have:
I was wondering what sort of upgrade I could perform on this setup.
As the charlize and EJ Jordan speakers are terrific, at this stage I was thinking of upgrading the cartridge or phono pre-amp stage, or even the whole deck.
If I was to upgrade the phono preamp stage, I have a choice of a budget line preamp made by Project or a Gram GA1- GSP or something.. http://www.decibelhifi.com.au/prod234.htm or I could build my own valve based preamp.
The other thing is I am using pretty average powersupplies for the amp and preamp, so maybe I could upgrade them, and also the interconnects to the amp.
Anyway.. I am still wondering what I should do to upgrade. Any suggestions would be terrific!
I am an audiophile on a tight budget... (aren't most of us?) and I want to upgrade my system!
This is what I have:
Project Debut III with standard tonearm and Ortofon OMB5E cartridge with elliptical stylus.
TC-754 Preamp - http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-preamp_e.html
Charlize Amp - http://diyparadise.com/charlize.html
Tubalizer 1:1 preamp buffer (between output of TC-754 and Charlize) - http://www.audiodigit.com/index.php?section=81
Kit built EJ Jordan full range Transmission Line speakers - http://www.decibelhifi.com.au/category24_1.htm
I was wondering what sort of upgrade I could perform on this setup.
As the charlize and EJ Jordan speakers are terrific, at this stage I was thinking of upgrading the cartridge or phono pre-amp stage, or even the whole deck.
If I was to upgrade the phono preamp stage, I have a choice of a budget line preamp made by Project or a Gram GA1- GSP or something.. http://www.decibelhifi.com.au/prod234.htm or I could build my own valve based preamp.
The other thing is I am using pretty average powersupplies for the amp and preamp, so maybe I could upgrade them, and also the interconnects to the amp.
Anyway.. I am still wondering what I should do to upgrade. Any suggestions would be terrific!
Stick with the turntable. Should you run into a nice used deck with a nice arm at an even nice price, then you could think about it.
I would get this phono stage: Phonoclone. I would probably ditch C3 and R7.
Now you will need a MC cart. They aren't cheap, but you will have lots to choose from in the $200-400 range. There's little use going higher than that. Just make sure it's high- to mid-compliant to match your arm.
The next logical step, since you have a tube pre, is to go tube phono.
I would get this phono stage: Phonoclone. I would probably ditch C3 and R7.
Now you will need a MC cart. They aren't cheap, but you will have lots to choose from in the $200-400 range. There's little use going higher than that. Just make sure it's high- to mid-compliant to match your arm.
The next logical step, since you have a tube pre, is to go tube phono.
Great suggestions, thanks!
I actually read about the phonoclones before, so thankyou for reminding me about them. A neat design and project.... I think it would be an excellent DIY addition! Not too difficult too.
I was thinking if I went MC, it would probably be something like the Ortophon Salsa entry level MC cartridge or maybe even a Goldring.
Any other suggestions are welcome though.
I know that music reproduction is only as good as its source. Improving the cart/phono stage seems to me to be a logical step in improving my setup.
Some sort of valve preamp for the phono stage would be a great project to tackle later on up the path. I am a little afraid of valve projects due to the voltages involved, but I am sure if I was careful I would be ok. Seems there are a lot of valve based kit projects available these days too!
Thanks again,
I actually read about the phonoclones before, so thankyou for reminding me about them. A neat design and project.... I think it would be an excellent DIY addition! Not too difficult too.
I was thinking if I went MC, it would probably be something like the Ortophon Salsa entry level MC cartridge or maybe even a Goldring.
Any other suggestions are welcome though.
I know that music reproduction is only as good as its source. Improving the cart/phono stage seems to me to be a logical step in improving my setup.
Some sort of valve preamp for the phono stage would be a great project to tackle later on up the path. I am a little afraid of valve projects due to the voltages involved, but I am sure if I was careful I would be ok. Seems there are a lot of valve based kit projects available these days too!
Thanks again,
You have loudspeakers worthy of a valve phono stage. Even if built with really cheap components, a valve phono stage with passive RIAA will give you a better return on your money than spending it on cables and the like. High voltages are alarming, and you're right to be nervous, but with a little care, you needn't be frightened off.
MC carts tend to last a very long time. Nobody knows yet how long an Ortofon SPU will last, and they have been around for half a century! So unless you upgrade and ditch a perfectly working cart, you are going to live with whatever you buy for a very long time.
That doesn't mean you should pay through your nose. My point of little use going higher than $200-400 (basically entry level) is that there tend to be little gain getting a cart between, say, $400 and $1,000. There are exceptions (there always are), but generally you should stay below $400 or above $1,000.
I snatched this dialogue from the Vinyl Engine:
"hallo,
with your very high class kit, why are you using a Denon cartridge? for only a bit more, you can have a much better one and much better sound! try a Dynavector, or Shelter, or Benz Micro......"
"Hi there,
Simple answer... I've tried all of the above, and the 103R blows them all away. More specifically I've owned Shelter 501 and 901, Dyna 10x4 and Benz L2... in every important way the Denon is far more musical to me."
So who uses >$1,000 carts? I wouldn't know. Direct-heated triode guru Susumu Sakuma certainly doesn't. He uses a $250 Denon DL-102.
I know nothing about the Ortofon Salsa. But Ortofon's track record is second to none. Their most expensive carts cost a fraction of the more expensive carts out there. The Denon DL-103II looks like an interesting alternative. That's pretty much all I have. Almost everything else out there is very expensive.
That doesn't mean you should pay through your nose. My point of little use going higher than $200-400 (basically entry level) is that there tend to be little gain getting a cart between, say, $400 and $1,000. There are exceptions (there always are), but generally you should stay below $400 or above $1,000.
I snatched this dialogue from the Vinyl Engine:
"hallo,
with your very high class kit, why are you using a Denon cartridge? for only a bit more, you can have a much better one and much better sound! try a Dynavector, or Shelter, or Benz Micro......"
"Hi there,
Simple answer... I've tried all of the above, and the 103R blows them all away. More specifically I've owned Shelter 501 and 901, Dyna 10x4 and Benz L2... in every important way the Denon is far more musical to me."
So who uses >$1,000 carts? I wouldn't know. Direct-heated triode guru Susumu Sakuma certainly doesn't. He uses a $250 Denon DL-102.
I know nothing about the Ortofon Salsa. But Ortofon's track record is second to none. Their most expensive carts cost a fraction of the more expensive carts out there. The Denon DL-103II looks like an interesting alternative. That's pretty much all I have. Almost everything else out there is very expensive.
Over on the Vinyl Asylum there are a few carts that get praised on a regular basis. For low output; Denon DL-103/103R and Audio Technica OC9. For high output; Dynavector 10x5 and Benz Micro Ace.
The Benz Ace is the only one that falls outside of your pirice range.
The Dyna and Benz could be used with your existing phono while you build something better, (hint, hint).
Jeff
The Benz Ace is the only one that falls outside of your pirice range.
The Dyna and Benz could be used with your existing phono while you build something better, (hint, hint).
Jeff
Thanks again for the suggestions.
I am glad that even with my limited funds, modest setup and lack of audiophile knowledge, people take my quest for good sound seriously I am sure that a few DIY'ers fit in that category. There is only one way to learn - to plunge in and trust your hunches!
One thing I should of told you is how much money I am prepared to spend. I was thinking around the $500 mark... but I could save some more!
Yes. I am soon going to take the valve plunge. I really love the sound of valve setups and as I said there are plenty of decent looking kits out there. Are there any good for first timer valve MC/MM phono preamp kits you would recommend? I remember a little while ago I was reading up on the Bottlehead Seduction - this looks like an ideal starting place and it looks straight forward enough to make.
Are you suggesting that my first goal should be to improve my turntable? I do agree... Would it be more satisfactory to get a decent MC cart, build a good valve preamp and then, say next year, purchase or build up a better turntable from parts?
I always thought if I start somewhere I can upgrade as I get more money and also learn about how different parts all work together without initially blowing heaps of cash. I believe it is a journey that will be very rewarding! I also believe I don't need to go absolutely crazy (just yet! ) and that I am sure I can get really impressive (for me) results on a limited supply of funds. Reading many posts on this and other forums, it gives me hope because I can see it is possible to get fantastic sound on a budget. I also like how it develops your creativity.
I think at this stage I should:
1. Think about upgrading the cart to a good-performing MC cart.
2. Build a good MC valve preamp
3. Upgrade the whole turntable (later)
I am glad that even with my limited funds, modest setup and lack of audiophile knowledge, people take my quest for good sound seriously
I am sure that a few DIY'ers fit in that category. There is only one way to learn - to plunge in and trust your hunches!One thing I should of told you is how much money I am prepared to spend. I was thinking around the $500 mark... but I could save some more!
Yes. I am soon going to take the valve plunge. I really love the sound of valve setups and as I said there are plenty of decent looking kits out there. Are there any good for first timer valve MC/MM phono preamp kits you would recommend? I remember a little while ago I was reading up on the Bottlehead Seduction - this looks like an ideal starting place and it looks straight forward enough to make.
Are you suggesting that my first goal should be to improve my turntable? I do agree... Would it be more satisfactory to get a decent MC cart, build a good valve preamp and then, say next year, purchase or build up a better turntable from parts? I always thought if I start somewhere I can upgrade as I get more money and also learn about how different parts all work together without initially blowing heaps of cash. I believe it is a journey that will be very rewarding! I also believe I don't need to go absolutely crazy (just yet!
) and that I am sure I can get really impressive (for me) results on a limited supply of funds. Reading many posts on this and other forums, it gives me hope because I can see it is possible to get fantastic sound on a budget. I also like how it develops your creativity.I think at this stage I should:
1. Think about upgrading the cart to a good-performing MC cart.
2. Build a good MC valve preamp
3. Upgrade the whole turntable (later)
kaban said:
Sorry, what I meant was to build a better phono stage first, and deal with the turntable later. If you go ahead with the Seduction, be aware that it only has 36dB gain. This means that the cartridge you buy has to have at least 2.5mV output (MC or MM), unless you also include a step-up device for more gain (low output MC).
Either way I think you are on the right track.
Jeff
EC8010 said:
You have thrown down the gauntlet.
Maybe I should build a tube pre from scratch. I am prepared to take risks and learn about it, I have always loved tubes and the tube sound since I was a child... I do actually have contacts here in Australia who supply tubes, chokes and power transformers. If I do enough reading and research, I am sure to find something that suits! I also like the challenge and satisfaction of building from scratch. Great idea!
Hmm so much food for thought, so much improvement that can be made!
Thanks again for reading and replying. It really is appreciated by me... and I mean it!
Go for the Seduction
I want to endorse the Seduction. It is a great design. One of the challenges with a phono stage is low noise and the Seduction has been designed to provide a very quiet background. I am using one with a line array that is probably not far off from your Jordans and it is great. It is also a good introduction to building and DIY. Doing it all from scratch means learning a ton about layout from the start and providing not only DC on the tube heaters but using shielded cable for it-all of this comes with the Seduction. Good luck on your journey.
I want to endorse the Seduction. It is a great design. One of the challenges with a phono stage is low noise and the Seduction has been designed to provide a very quiet background. I am using one with a line array that is probably not far off from your Jordans and it is great. It is also a good introduction to building and DIY. Doing it all from scratch means learning a ton about layout from the start and providing not only DC on the tube heaters but using shielded cable for it-all of this comes with the Seduction. Good luck on your journey.
kaban said:
When I was a lad... I had no money. I had walk six miles to salvage resistors from broken televisions and if I built something I didn't like, I had to salvage all the parts because I couldn't afford to waste anything, so I know where you're coming from. Further, there's huge satisfaction in beating the system and making something good for peanuts. The audio equivalent of a rat bike, I suppose.
If you're wanting to build really cheaply, you need to abandon 6.3V heaters and go for 12.6V. In general, the 12.6V heater version of a valve is half the price of the 6.3V version. Also, loctals are cheaper than octals, so a 14N7 is far cheaper than a 6SN7. Novals (ECC83 etc) are mainstream, so they're expensive. Sometimes, you can't avoid them - there isn't an octal equivalent for the ECC88.
It's really down to how much effort you're prepared to put in. Building from scratch is likely to require modifying an existing design to suit the components available or even designing from scratch. That means you need to be unafraid of a bit of algebra. It also helps if you're capable of drilling round holes in the right place and cutting straight lines in the right place...
Just a quick update...
I am probably going to build the phonoclone, get a MC cartridge and then build a tube based preamp from scratch, just for fun!
As far as a decent MC cartridge is concerned, I am looking at a Denon DL-103 as I have read reviews about it being a good all-rounder. I don't really have the opportunity to go somewhere to hear these carts in action so I have to go on recommendations and reviews. The phonoclone looks simple enough, and I am eyeing Yeo's simple tube preamp http://diyparadise.com/simplepreamp.html to start me off in the world of diy tube!
I am probably going to build the phonoclone, get a MC cartridge and then build a tube based preamp from scratch, just for fun!
As far as a decent MC cartridge is concerned, I am looking at a Denon DL-103 as I have read reviews about it being a good all-rounder. I don't really have the opportunity to go somewhere to hear these carts in action so I have to go on recommendations and reviews. The phonoclone looks simple enough, and I am eyeing Yeo's simple tube preamp http://diyparadise.com/simplepreamp.html to start me off in the world of diy tube!
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