Lately I have been playing around with trying to get some really wrecked records playable, these hark from my early teens when the turntable I used was a plastic job that sounded worse than a gramophone and wrecked good records in a single play, not that I knew any better at the time.
So here is one or two that is bound to get a few howls judging by the reverence many hold for record cleaning methods.
First up I clean all my records in a sink with regular dish washing liquid, a soft ttothbrush and a stiff bristled paint brush and let them air dry, that probably already upsets a few purists so maybe they should read no further, but I reckon my LPs sound great so I'm not too worried.
Try this one AJAX spray and wipe liquid baking soda, comes in a spray pack. Spray it on, scrub with a tooth brush and stiff paintbrush at an angle to the grooves then rinse in soapy water and let air dry. It works amazingly well, much quieter as far as surface noise goes and when you play the record through aferwards the stylus hardly picks up any dust at all, which means it must be pretty clean. And there is no degradation in the sound at all.
Not rough enough OK heres one to make the purists wince, got a really stuffed record...nothing to lose? Prepsol or similar. This is a wax remover for cars that are to be resprayed, yep very heavy duty, stinks too, but it sure does release the crud in conbination with a soft toothbrush, then follow up with washing in warm water and detergent. Finally finsh off with armour-all and play it a few times. Clean the stylus after the first play if it needs it. You can then transfer to CD via the computer.
I promise it doesn't kill the record, not straight away anyway and probably not in the long term either.
I think lots of folk get real worried about scrubbing their LPs but I have found that without scrubbing your not really getting the LP clean, thinking about it logically if you can drag a hard diamond through a vinyl groove at 33 1/3 then a soft brush or even not so soft brush at
slow speed shouldn't be too much of a problem.
All these methods, items are dirt cheap but if you want to throw money at me I'm happy to re-bottle them and call them something flash and send them to you.
Ok, Ive put my hard hat but don't throw things that are too heavy or sharp at me now.
Hope it helps someone.
So here is one or two that is bound to get a few howls judging by the reverence many hold for record cleaning methods.
First up I clean all my records in a sink with regular dish washing liquid, a soft ttothbrush and a stiff bristled paint brush and let them air dry, that probably already upsets a few purists so maybe they should read no further, but I reckon my LPs sound great so I'm not too worried.
Try this one AJAX spray and wipe liquid baking soda, comes in a spray pack. Spray it on, scrub with a tooth brush and stiff paintbrush at an angle to the grooves then rinse in soapy water and let air dry. It works amazingly well, much quieter as far as surface noise goes and when you play the record through aferwards the stylus hardly picks up any dust at all, which means it must be pretty clean. And there is no degradation in the sound at all.
Not rough enough OK heres one to make the purists wince, got a really stuffed record...nothing to lose? Prepsol or similar. This is a wax remover for cars that are to be resprayed, yep very heavy duty, stinks too, but it sure does release the crud in conbination with a soft toothbrush, then follow up with washing in warm water and detergent. Finally finsh off with armour-all and play it a few times. Clean the stylus after the first play if it needs it. You can then transfer to CD via the computer.
I promise it doesn't kill the record, not straight away anyway and probably not in the long term either.
I think lots of folk get real worried about scrubbing their LPs but I have found that without scrubbing your not really getting the LP clean, thinking about it logically if you can drag a hard diamond through a vinyl groove at 33 1/3 then a soft brush or even not so soft brush at
slow speed shouldn't be too much of a problem.
All these methods, items are dirt cheap but if you want to throw money at me I'm happy to re-bottle them and call them something flash and send them to you.
Ok, Ive put my hard hat but don't throw things that are too heavy or sharp at me now.
Hope it helps someone.
maybe something else here ...
" ... Try this one AJAX spray and wipe liquid baking soda, comes in a spray pack. ..."
This might be a little caustic and both AJAX (and similar) and baking soda have very tiny particles (a colloidal suspension of particles in solution rather than a chemical) and these tiny particles can be somewhat abrasive to the higher frequencies.
Another suggestion here might be advised.
" ... Try this one AJAX spray and wipe liquid baking soda, comes in a spray pack. ..."
This might be a little caustic and both AJAX (and similar) and baking soda have very tiny particles (a colloidal suspension of particles in solution rather than a chemical) and these tiny particles can be somewhat abrasive to the higher frequencies.
Another suggestion here might be advised.
possibly ...
... a better choice than AJAX + baking soda ... ( http://www.dow.com/surfactants/products/nonylph.htm )
... a better choice than AJAX + baking soda ... ( http://www.dow.com/surfactants/products/nonylph.htm )
Hi Eddy
Eddy wrote:
This might be a little caustic and both AJAX (and similar) and baking soda have very tiny particles (a colloidal suspension of particles in solution rather than a chemical) and these tiny particles can be somewhat abrasive to the higher frequencies.
Another suggestion here might be advised.
Not 100% sure about this, there seems to be absolutely no problems at all, I did try this on a record that was in good condition, but one I hated, and the recording runs utterly silent and the highs a beautiful. The stylus picks up virtually nothing after playing the whole side so it must be pretty clean
The spray contains citrus and baking soda, detergent aid, surfectants, preservative, opacifier and no phosphorus. On glass, chrome etc it is totally streak free. In fact it says there is no need to rinse on the pack, so I don't think it is leaving any solids behind.
I do rinse it however.
It would be interesting for someone else to try it on a few crook discs and see what they think.
I.m sure there are lots of other good options.
Thanks Eddy
Eddy wrote:
This might be a little caustic and both AJAX (and similar) and baking soda have very tiny particles (a colloidal suspension of particles in solution rather than a chemical) and these tiny particles can be somewhat abrasive to the higher frequencies.
Another suggestion here might be advised.
Not 100% sure about this, there seems to be absolutely no problems at all, I did try this on a record that was in good condition, but one I hated, and the recording runs utterly silent and the highs a beautiful. The stylus picks up virtually nothing after playing the whole side so it must be pretty clean
The spray contains citrus and baking soda, detergent aid, surfectants, preservative, opacifier and no phosphorus. On glass, chrome etc it is totally streak free. In fact it says there is no need to rinse on the pack, so I don't think it is leaving any solids behind.
I do rinse it however.
It would be interesting for someone else to try it on a few crook discs and see what they think.
I.m sure there are lots of other good options.
Thanks Eddy
bad records = OK, good = not
It is OK to experiment on vinyl records you don't much care about ...
" ... Not 100% sure about this, there seems to be absolutely no problems at all, I did try this on a record that was in good condition, but one I hated, and the recording runs utterly silent and the highs a beautiful. The stylus picks up virtually nothing after playing the whole side so it must be pretty clean ..."
Your ears can easily be decieved .. and your mind may hear only what your preconceived notions say should be there ... or not there ... (there are plenty of discussions about this elsewhere).
" ... The spray contains citrus and baking soda, detergent aid, surfectants, preservative, opacifier and no phosphorus. On glass, chrome etc it is totally streak free ..."
Fine and dandy as a glass cleaner ... AND polisher ... great ...
... Glass polish / cleaner does often have very fine particles of grit to smooth out those tiny, tiny ridges and bumps in the glass ... which is exactly the point = high frequency analog audio information is stored in tiny, tiny bumps and ridges in the grooves of every vinyl record ... thus using a even a very, very fine grit to clean vinyl records could easily "smooth out" a bunck of that high frequency analog information on your records. ... ruining the high end = like that high freq. guitar solo everyone raves about ... you may have to use this cleaner several times in order to hear the differences ... but once is enough to totally ruin that really rare copy of Muddy Waters & Buddy Guy (Chess Records) ... 
citrus = quite acidic, but probably OK in small, dilute doses
baking soda = highly gritty
detergent aid = may be OK, but wihout knowing for sure, care should be taken = an "aid to detergent" could be a scrubbing grit ...
surfectants = probably also gritty if it is one of the active glass polishes
preservative = what kind? salt? acid? formaldahyde? DDT?
opacifier = similar to "opaic" pacifier = as in pacifying opacity ?? ... could also be another gritty glass polish.
oops ....
It is OK to experiment on vinyl records you don't much care about ...
" ... Not 100% sure about this, there seems to be absolutely no problems at all, I did try this on a record that was in good condition, but one I hated, and the recording runs utterly silent and the highs a beautiful. The stylus picks up virtually nothing after playing the whole side so it must be pretty clean ..."
Your ears can easily be decieved .. and your mind may hear only what your preconceived notions say should be there ... or not there ... (there are plenty of discussions about this elsewhere).
" ... The spray contains citrus and baking soda, detergent aid, surfectants, preservative, opacifier and no phosphorus. On glass, chrome etc it is totally streak free ..."
Fine and dandy as a glass cleaner ... AND polisher ... great ...
... Glass polish / cleaner does often have very fine particles of grit to smooth out those tiny, tiny ridges and bumps in the glass ... which is exactly the point = high frequency analog audio information is stored in tiny, tiny bumps and ridges in the grooves of every vinyl record ... thus using a even a very, very fine grit to clean vinyl records could easily "smooth out" a bunck of that high frequency analog information on your records. ... ruining the high end = like that high freq. guitar solo everyone raves about ... you may have to use this cleaner several times in order to hear the differences ... but once is enough to totally ruin that really rare copy of Muddy Waters & Buddy Guy (Chess Records) ... citrus = quite acidic, but probably OK in small, dilute doses
baking soda = highly gritty
detergent aid = may be OK, but wihout knowing for sure, care should be taken = an "aid to detergent" could be a scrubbing grit ...
surfectants = probably also gritty if it is one of the active glass polishes
preservative = what kind? salt? acid? formaldahyde? DDT?
opacifier = similar to "opaic" pacifier = as in pacifying opacity ?? ... could also be another gritty glass polish.
oops ....
Hi,
The analogy between the diamond stylus and scrubbing with a brush is pretty funny. You can't really compare them at all.
What is the usual tracking weight of a stylus.... no more than a couple of grams right? Now how many hundreds of grams, or perhaps kilos of force are you exerting on the record when you scrub it???
Out of interest, what are you playing these records on?
Cheers,
Mark
The analogy between the diamond stylus and scrubbing with a brush is pretty funny. You can't really compare them at all.
What is the usual tracking weight of a stylus.... no more than a couple of grams right? Now how many hundreds of grams, or perhaps kilos of force are you exerting on the record when you scrub it???
Out of interest, what are you playing these records on?
Cheers,
Mark
Hi Mark
Good to chat to another Aussie.
Your right mate no comparison but maybe not in the way you may think, I am assuming you are thinking the brush would be damaging?
A stylus exerts huge force over a very small area even at a tracking weight of 2 grams (several tones per square inch I believe). And there is no give in a stylus, if there was you wouldn't hear much.
A toothbrush has hundreds of relatively soft bristles with blunt or rounded ends that spread the load so the pressure by comparison is minimal, after years of scrubbing my teeth I have found that suger is far more damaging than bristles and toothpaste.
I also use a very high quality but stiff paint brush, with probably thousands of flexible bristles/ hairs it would be even less damaging.
My current turntable I'm using (I have 6) is a Direct Drive Aiwa 2400. The cart is a A and R Cambridge P77, the same Cart as the Garrot P77 with a different stylus I believe.
This table has been modded within an inch of its life so really can't be compared to a std unit, it has an excetionally low noise floor now and as you can see from the pic many things to limit vibration.
The cart is tweaked a bit and mounted via faom tape, no nuts , I have posted about this a few days back.
Ok, you will just have to take my word for this but this thing sounds quite amazing and detail retreiveal is very high, trust me my speakers are based on very efficient 4 inch full range drivers with super tweeters, if a pin drops you hear it. A good mate with a Thorens 320 and Garrott cart reckons it eats his set-up, though I haven't heard his.
None of this gear or tweaks may sound state of the art, but I know what works for me, much of my business is teaching digital sound and image editing so I'm more than a little pedantic when it comes to getting the best source material in the first place. Oh and I loath to waste money if I don't have to, but you.ve probably guessed that.
Happy Listening
Good to chat to another Aussie.
Your right mate no comparison but maybe not in the way you may think, I am assuming you are thinking the brush would be damaging?
A stylus exerts huge force over a very small area even at a tracking weight of 2 grams (several tones per square inch I believe). And there is no give in a stylus, if there was you wouldn't hear much.
A toothbrush has hundreds of relatively soft bristles with blunt or rounded ends that spread the load so the pressure by comparison is minimal, after years of scrubbing my teeth I have found that suger is far more damaging than bristles and toothpaste.
I also use a very high quality but stiff paint brush, with probably thousands of flexible bristles/ hairs it would be even less damaging.
My current turntable I'm using (I have 6) is a Direct Drive Aiwa 2400. The cart is a A and R Cambridge P77, the same Cart as the Garrot P77 with a different stylus I believe.
This table has been modded within an inch of its life so really can't be compared to a std unit, it has an excetionally low noise floor now and as you can see from the pic many things to limit vibration.
The cart is tweaked a bit and mounted via faom tape, no nuts , I have posted about this a few days back.
Ok, you will just have to take my word for this but this thing sounds quite amazing and detail retreiveal is very high, trust me my speakers are based on very efficient 4 inch full range drivers with super tweeters, if a pin drops you hear it. A good mate with a Thorens 320 and Garrott cart reckons it eats his set-up, though I haven't heard his.
None of this gear or tweaks may sound state of the art, but I know what works for me, much of my business is teaching digital sound and image editing so I'm more than a little pedantic when it comes to getting the best source material in the first place. Oh and I loath to waste money if I don't have to, but you.ve probably guessed that.
Happy Listening
Attachments
I'd test any brush before deciding it's okay to use. I tried a few kinds of brushes by repeatedly scrubbing near the run-out groove of an unwanted record and couldn't find any that were gentle enough. After a few minutes of scrubbing, you can see with your own eyes that paint brush bristles scratch vinyl. I bet toothbrushes will too.
It's best let the fluid do the work, even if it takes a few cleanings. I use a carbon fiber brush and cotton velvet.
But by all means, let me know if you find a paint brush bristle type that doesn't scratch vinyl, I'll give it a shot.
It's best let the fluid do the work, even if it takes a few cleanings. I use a carbon fiber brush and cotton velvet.
But by all means, let me know if you find a paint brush bristle type that doesn't scratch vinyl, I'll give it a shot.
Hi Artclone
The paintbrush I use is a 1" Bondza, this is a very good brush for painting, holds lots of paint and nice neat end, the toothbrush is the softest I could find.
I dont scrub for minutes, just a few seconds, but I did check before using these things as I was a little paranoid and I did not find any damage at all, granted though after several minutes of heavy scrubbing I might mark the vinyl, I will try that on a disc, however this is not typical of how I use the items.
Probably another issue is that I do have the record very wet, I even dump the whole thing in the sink with soapy water regulary while srubbing, and I know that upsets a bit as people worry about the label, but remember these are old worn and not precious discs for digitising. Funny thing no label has been damaged by this, they all just dried out perfectly.
The paintbrush I use is a 1" Bondza, this is a very good brush for painting, holds lots of paint and nice neat end, the toothbrush is the softest I could find.
I dont scrub for minutes, just a few seconds, but I did check before using these things as I was a little paranoid and I did not find any damage at all, granted though after several minutes of heavy scrubbing I might mark the vinyl, I will try that on a disc, however this is not typical of how I use the items.
Probably another issue is that I do have the record very wet, I even dump the whole thing in the sink with soapy water regulary while srubbing, and I know that upsets a bit as people worry about the label, but remember these are old worn and not precious discs for digitising. Funny thing no label has been damaged by this, they all just dried out perfectly.
Try using a microfiber lens cleaning cloth rather than a toothbrush. Just a suggestion. As plastics go vinyl is surprisingly robust but I'd nonetheless be inclined to treat it with the same respect as a camera lens or LCD screen.
Also dionized rather than tap water for the final rinse.
That said there is something very satisfying in going all suds and bubbles on a crusty LP and getting something actually decent sounding at the end.
/R
Also dionized rather than tap water for the final rinse.
That said there is something very satisfying in going all suds and bubbles on a crusty LP and getting something actually decent sounding at the end.
/R
Thanks R.
I'll try the microfibre cloth for cleaning, I have a couple and use one for a quick dust prior to playing the LPs.
Yep the de ionized water sounds good too, where I live we are in severe drought, and our water supply is hard and lousy!
Heres an update, tried a couple of other things this evening, one was a citrus based cleaner, without baking soda, this worked really well on the most trashed record I own, I asl tried an idea I read on another forum.
Basically wash the record and lay it on paper towel of good quality and lay some paper towel over the top and press. I thought this would fill the disc with fibre, it didn;t but it did remove lots of deep rubbish. THe only problem is that when I played the disc I found it does deposit some fibre on the surface, so I tried then re-rinsing the disc and allowing to air dry, I'd say that will work but I wont play it till the morning.
It sounds like an odd idea, but then I can see the sense as lots of stains are removed from fabrics etc this way.
I just wonder if a chamois dedicated to the task mightbe a better bet.
mant thanks
Brad
I'll try the microfibre cloth for cleaning, I have a couple and use one for a quick dust prior to playing the LPs.
Yep the de ionized water sounds good too, where I live we are in severe drought, and our water supply is hard and lousy!
Heres an update, tried a couple of other things this evening, one was a citrus based cleaner, without baking soda, this worked really well on the most trashed record I own, I asl tried an idea I read on another forum.
Basically wash the record and lay it on paper towel of good quality and lay some paper towel over the top and press. I thought this would fill the disc with fibre, it didn;t but it did remove lots of deep rubbish. THe only problem is that when I played the disc I found it does deposit some fibre on the surface, so I tried then re-rinsing the disc and allowing to air dry, I'd say that will work but I wont play it till the morning.
It sounds like an odd idea, but then I can see the sense as lots of stains are removed from fabrics etc this way.
I just wonder if a chamois dedicated to the task mightbe a better bet.
mant thanks
Brad
Hi all,
While reading this it occured to me that auseful solution for record cleaning may well be hyrogen peroxide (diluted?) - this fizzes up on contact with dirt (I don't think it will damage vinyl) which may well bring the dirt out of the record groove to the surface wher it can be rinsed off.
Has anybody tried this? I googled but no hits.
John
While reading this it occured to me that auseful solution for record cleaning may well be hyrogen peroxide (diluted?) - this fizzes up on contact with dirt (I don't think it will damage vinyl) which may well bring the dirt out of the record groove to the surface wher it can be rinsed off.
Has anybody tried this? I googled but no hits.
John
I would avoid the use of any citrus products on vinyl. I have had Citrusolve, albeit it in a rather concentrated form, discolour and disfigure plastic.
Whenever I clean thrift store LPs I use a soft, round brush from the drugstore cosmetics aisle with Fantastik spray cleaner, then rinse under filtered tap water.
Max
Whenever I clean thrift store LPs I use a soft, round brush from the drugstore cosmetics aisle with Fantastik spray cleaner, then rinse under filtered tap water.
Max
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