Today i have beed busy with replacing the aluminium tone-arm tube from my diy arm into a 10/9 mm cross-woven carbon tube. I had to grind the tube to get it with a tight fit in the alu headshell.
I want to finish the carbon to get a beautiful look, and for additional dampening. What laquer shall i use, any comments? My thougts are to use high gloss acrylate spray.
http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=armoq2.jpg
Thanks
I want to finish the carbon to get a beautiful look, and for additional dampening. What laquer shall i use, any comments? My thougts are to use high gloss acrylate spray.
http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=armoq2.jpg
Thanks
depends what you want the finish to do
If you want the finish to provide a nice look then hard wax would be an excellent choice (carnuba is the hardest wax) and a heat gun or hair drier will assist in getting a super smooth and shiny hi gloss finish. If however you want the finish to not only provide a hi sheen but also tune the tone of the arm then you might consider violin varnish (many types). High grade art supply orange shellac is probably the hardest natural resin that you can find but you can add in powdered gemstones to impart colour and hardness, I would think that with a composite tube made from carbon fiber (plasma treated PET mono filaments) which is held together with in most cases epoxy that hard coating with gemstone add mixtures like diamond and others would tend to brighten and highlight the more subdued sound of the epoxy in the CF tube. The bonding resin tends to be the predominant contributor to the sonic signature of most composites. I will be most interested to know what you decide to try and what you think of the results. Regards Moray James.
If you want the finish to provide a nice look then hard wax would be an excellent choice (carnuba is the hardest wax) and a heat gun or hair drier will assist in getting a super smooth and shiny hi gloss finish. If however you want the finish to not only provide a hi sheen but also tune the tone of the arm then you might consider violin varnish (many types). High grade art supply orange shellac is probably the hardest natural resin that you can find but you can add in powdered gemstones to impart colour and hardness, I would think that with a composite tube made from carbon fiber (plasma treated PET mono filaments) which is held together with in most cases epoxy that hard coating with gemstone add mixtures like diamond and others would tend to brighten and highlight the more subdued sound of the epoxy in the CF tube. The bonding resin tends to be the predominant contributor to the sonic signature of most composites. I will be most interested to know what you decide to try and what you think of the results. Regards Moray James.
Thanks Maray for reply.
I think the hard shellack for violins would be great. I didn't know they added gemstone in it for extra hardness. Thanks for the info.
The used carbon tube is from germany, ordered in a shop for making kite's and so on. It had a sticky outer layer, but i had to polish that off with grain 1000 sandpaper to fit the tube. The carbon itself was harder, and dense woven with some bonding, not sure what.
I think my father had somewhere shellack. I see just it can be solluted in alcohol
I think the hard shellack for violins would be great. I didn't know they added gemstone in it for extra hardness. Thanks for the info.
The used carbon tube is from germany, ordered in a shop for making kite's and so on. It had a sticky outer layer, but i had to polish that off with grain 1000 sandpaper to fit the tube. The carbon itself was harder, and dense woven with some bonding, not sure what.
I think my father had somewhere shellack. I see just it can be solluted in alcohol
Link graphics not recognised
http://210.69.13.146/search/PatDetail.asp?PN=US04496675&DBName=US Look here
http://210.69.13.146/search/PatDetail.asp?PN=US04496675&DBName=US Look here
Your arm looks really great, I must congratulate you on that, first of all!
I think one should keep in mind that violin varnishes are choosen for the opposite of good dampening properties. (It is considered an advantage in a violin that as many vibrations as possible are excited for a long a time as possible). A carbon arm OTOH is stiff and light, and one has has to think in other directions, if one wants to improve it. Because it is stiff, mainly high frequency vibrations will become exited in it, therefore some rather soft, dampening stuff on its surface could possibly be an advantage. High quality tape, for example (Tesa)... Well, that was meant as an example only, not taking the looks into consideration!
Another possibility - and this is my favorite with low mass arms- is to instead add some mass, say, 2-3 grams of plasticine, to the cartridge body itself, to help keep the whole assembly immobile even when the stylus is working with strong bass signals, and also dampen somewhat high frequency vibrational energy at the origin.An ugly looking thing? Possible.
(I personallly always enjoy the look af a good techical solution...).
I think one should keep in mind that violin varnishes are choosen for the opposite of good dampening properties. (It is considered an advantage in a violin that as many vibrations as possible are excited for a long a time as possible). A carbon arm OTOH is stiff and light, and one has has to think in other directions, if one wants to improve it. Because it is stiff, mainly high frequency vibrations will become exited in it, therefore some rather soft, dampening stuff on its surface could possibly be an advantage. High quality tape, for example (Tesa)... Well, that was meant as an example only, not taking the looks into consideration!
Another possibility - and this is my favorite with low mass arms- is to instead add some mass, say, 2-3 grams of plasticine, to the cartridge body itself, to help keep the whole assembly immobile even when the stylus is working with strong bass signals, and also dampen somewhat high frequency vibrational energy at the origin.An ugly looking thing? Possible.
(I personallly always enjoy the look af a good techical solution...).
Thanks for compliment Sletol. And for answers Moray.
The arm has been in use for 18 years allready, and want to clean ball bearings & replenisch the oil after that long time. In meantime solve resonant problems of metal arm tube with carbon. The Akia DD drive base will be discarded, a belt drive is more steady in speed. Still thinking of a good solution for that. (find a Thorens?)
For the arm i like dampening & good looks if possible. Experimented with rubber sheets between cart and headshell, but this was not sufficient. I hope carbon will solve some problems. I am thinking to exchange the metal armbase in a Delrin-one too.
The arm has been in use for 18 years allready, and want to clean ball bearings & replenisch the oil after that long time. In meantime solve resonant problems of metal arm tube with carbon. The Akia DD drive base will be discarded, a belt drive is more steady in speed. Still thinking of a good solution for that. (find a Thorens?)
For the arm i like dampening & good looks if possible. Experimented with rubber sheets between cart and headshell, but this was not sufficient. I hope carbon will solve some problems. I am thinking to exchange the metal armbase in a Delrin-one too.
Carbon Arm Finish
Hi Tubee, Moray James @ All
Congratulations on your work on the arm! You guys are too clever!!!
My suggestion for varnishing would be a two-pack automotive clear sprayable varnish, which I have used often, spraying all kinds of things (also my Quad 405), using an airbrush and a small compressor.
Btw, I have just done the opposite with one of my Micro (I think MA-505) which had a straight graphite arm and removable offset headshell.
I've used two of these arms for many years and eventually connecting pins started getting loose or breaking and a severe headshell shortage resulted.
I decided to replace the graphite wand with a curved thinwall aluminium tube. After looking around for something to use, my eye fell on two landing sleds from a radiocontrolled helicopter.
I cleaned it up and started by running some basecoat/clearcoat auto paint varnish into it and let it dry for about two weeks.
In order to solve the headshell problem, I decided to go with the sme-type connector and over the last two weeks, finished the job. There were many fiddly bits to make and having a lathe and milling machine, I could put a very high finish on all parts, after which I anodised it 'natural'.
My first extended listening session was last night and I am very pleased with the result. The graphite wand was good but the new curved aluminium replacement seems to have more 'grip' on the music with sharper defined transients.
If anyone would care to see the mod, I have pics.
Regards all
bulgin
Hi Tubee, Moray James @ All
Congratulations on your work on the arm! You guys are too clever!!!
My suggestion for varnishing would be a two-pack automotive clear sprayable varnish, which I have used often, spraying all kinds of things (also my Quad 405), using an airbrush and a small compressor.
Btw, I have just done the opposite with one of my Micro (I think MA-505) which had a straight graphite arm and removable offset headshell.
I've used two of these arms for many years and eventually connecting pins started getting loose or breaking and a severe headshell shortage resulted.
I decided to replace the graphite wand with a curved thinwall aluminium tube. After looking around for something to use, my eye fell on two landing sleds from a radiocontrolled helicopter.
I cleaned it up and started by running some basecoat/clearcoat auto paint varnish into it and let it dry for about two weeks.
In order to solve the headshell problem, I decided to go with the sme-type connector and over the last two weeks, finished the job. There were many fiddly bits to make and having a lathe and milling machine, I could put a very high finish on all parts, after which I anodised it 'natural'.
My first extended listening session was last night and I am very pleased with the result. The graphite wand was good but the new curved aluminium replacement seems to have more 'grip' on the music with sharper defined transients.
If anyone would care to see the mod, I have pics.
Regards all
bulgin
Carbon Arm Finish
Hi All
The armtube was cut to length, drilled and then the 2-pack acrylic poured inside. After the varnish cured, I bared a small section inside to provide electrical contact for anodising. After anodising and during assembly, I again removed a small section of varnish to bare metal to provide an earth contact between the armpost and the armtube.
I precision turned a stepped aluminium connecting tube (also anodised) between the armtube end and the wider section ahead took a standard sme-type female socket (with the four springloaded pins). I also needed to make another brass adapter sleeve to accomodate the new thinner armtube as the new alu tube is 1mm smaller in dia than the old graphite item.
As the new arm was 14g heavier than the old straight graphite item, I turned a lead-filled brass cylinder to fit inside the armweight tube. In order to give me the same weight dialling readings, another small brass cylinder of the same dia as the armweight was added behind the standard calibrated weight.
I can now balance the arm, dial up 2g's or whatever and this is what I get at the stylus tip.
The whole excercise was done this way as I got fedup looking without success for Micro headshells and good quality sme-type shells are commonly available.
Thanks for the tip on posting pics. I'll try again.
Regards
bulgin
Hi All
The armtube was cut to length, drilled and then the 2-pack acrylic poured inside. After the varnish cured, I bared a small section inside to provide electrical contact for anodising. After anodising and during assembly, I again removed a small section of varnish to bare metal to provide an earth contact between the armpost and the armtube.
I precision turned a stepped aluminium connecting tube (also anodised) between the armtube end and the wider section ahead took a standard sme-type female socket (with the four springloaded pins). I also needed to make another brass adapter sleeve to accomodate the new thinner armtube as the new alu tube is 1mm smaller in dia than the old graphite item.
As the new arm was 14g heavier than the old straight graphite item, I turned a lead-filled brass cylinder to fit inside the armweight tube. In order to give me the same weight dialling readings, another small brass cylinder of the same dia as the armweight was added behind the standard calibrated weight.
I can now balance the arm, dial up 2g's or whatever and this is what I get at the stylus tip.
The whole excercise was done this way as I got fedup looking without success for Micro headshells and good quality sme-type shells are commonly available.
Thanks for the tip on posting pics. I'll try again.
Regards
bulgin
Total new TT design
I am redesigning the whole tt again:
*Direct drive will be replaced in belt drive.
*Former TT base was rubber suspended marble in a wooden plinth, now i choose as possible rectangular shaped (44 cm wide, 36 deep) Corian with dampening feet. So no suspended TT anymore, but direct coupled on "ground"
*Arm will be re used with new carbon tube. Will maybe dampen it inside with balsa wood in one end, plasticine in the cart end, also to increase mass. Elongate arm to 9+ inch (230 mm), its now 218mm. Considered longer, 10 or even 12 inch but the tt will be used only occasionally.
*Ask my friend to let make a grinded axle for platter, on special grinding machines with 1/1000 tolerance. Brass outer bearing rim will i produce myself on lathe, as possible with smearing groove in it. No thruster ball, but the point contact will grinded on axle itself.
*Vertical bearing plate i choose not hard or ceramic, but soft material, eg Delrin or nylon.
*Motor from Citizen 3.5 inch floppy drive motor, very powerful, smooth and small, and battery operated. In nighttime the 4 NiCad or NimH battery's are recharged by a telephone charger.
Have this idea from:
http://www.audioorigami.co.uk/FloppyProject/FloppyDIYMotor.htm
*Motor will be mounted in springs for decoupling.
*Gear is by thin rectanular or flat belt to pulley underneath platter, maybe i consider a magnetic coupling with ball bearings to platter also (like transrotor did) but we'll see about that. Have strong magnets allready btw.
*Change of 45 to 33 rpm by 2 pulley's or consider electronic, depends how motor is reacting on different voltage selection in reg. circuit.
*Platter from 3cm thick acrylate lathed.
This time will keep it simple, no motor shuttoff on end of album anymore, had a self designed optocoupler circuit for that on DD, but now will keep it simple. Because motor is small, total design of TT can be rather flat too, +/- 4cm for base, 3cm for platter, 2 cm for arm height, so all will be about 9 cm high maximum.
Idea is to try to design it all with a hard to soft material mix, again and again, to reduce interference. (soft feet, hard steel feetholders, "soft ?" Corian base, hard bearing, soft bearing plate, hard axle, soft platter)
I have a lot of work to do, but its nice work. Next week its ready
just kidding about that
I am redesigning the whole tt again:
*Direct drive will be replaced in belt drive.
*Former TT base was rubber suspended marble in a wooden plinth, now i choose as possible rectangular shaped (44 cm wide, 36 deep) Corian with dampening feet. So no suspended TT anymore, but direct coupled on "ground"
*Arm will be re used with new carbon tube. Will maybe dampen it inside with balsa wood in one end, plasticine in the cart end, also to increase mass. Elongate arm to 9+ inch (230 mm), its now 218mm. Considered longer, 10 or even 12 inch but the tt will be used only occasionally.
*Ask my friend to let make a grinded axle for platter, on special grinding machines with 1/1000 tolerance. Brass outer bearing rim will i produce myself on lathe, as possible with smearing groove in it. No thruster ball, but the point contact will grinded on axle itself.
*Vertical bearing plate i choose not hard or ceramic, but soft material, eg Delrin or nylon.
*Motor from Citizen 3.5 inch floppy drive motor, very powerful, smooth and small, and battery operated. In nighttime the 4 NiCad or NimH battery's are recharged by a telephone charger.
Have this idea from:
http://www.audioorigami.co.uk/FloppyProject/FloppyDIYMotor.htm
*Motor will be mounted in springs for decoupling.
*Gear is by thin rectanular or flat belt to pulley underneath platter, maybe i consider a magnetic coupling with ball bearings to platter also (like transrotor did) but we'll see about that. Have strong magnets allready btw.
*Change of 45 to 33 rpm by 2 pulley's or consider electronic, depends how motor is reacting on different voltage selection in reg. circuit.
*Platter from 3cm thick acrylate lathed.
This time will keep it simple, no motor shuttoff on end of album anymore, had a self designed optocoupler circuit for that on DD, but now will keep it simple. Because motor is small, total design of TT can be rather flat too, +/- 4cm for base, 3cm for platter, 2 cm for arm height, so all will be about 9 cm high maximum.
Idea is to try to design it all with a hard to soft material mix, again and again, to reduce interference. (soft feet, hard steel feetholders, "soft ?" Corian base, hard bearing, soft bearing plate, hard axle, soft platter)
I have a lot of work to do, but its nice work. Next week its ready
just kidding about that
Materials
Update about new TT idea: Just bought a piece of acryllic for the platter: 3 cm thick for a nice price. Will ask a nearby factory to deliver me a resin doped & hard pressed beach wood base of about 4cm thick. The bearing materials (bronze/to be hardened steel) i have allready, have to be lathed, as the patter. Motor runs very smooth, and strong, can deliver up to about 2.7 Watts! (0.55A @ 5V) Thinking about feet, but can be done later too.
Nice to build from rough materials to a TT.
Update about new TT idea: Just bought a piece of acryllic for the platter: 3 cm thick for a nice price. Will ask a nearby factory to deliver me a resin doped & hard pressed beach wood base of about 4cm thick. The bearing materials (bronze/to be hardened steel) i have allready, have to be lathed, as the patter. Motor runs very smooth, and strong, can deliver up to about 2.7 Watts! (0.55A @ 5V) Thinking about feet, but can be done later too.
Nice to build from rough materials to a TT.
Carbon Arm Finish
Hey, Hey tubee
It looks like you're having some fun. I still haven't tried the pics thing but I've now formed an opinion about the new arm. (Modestly) I say it is a great improvement over what I had and lookswise it is stunning. The big bonus is never having to hunt around for headshells as it takes sme-types.
To prepare for a proper attentive listening session, I also decided to give all the amp inputs fresh wire-ends and took the whole system apart and at about 6am this morning, everything was put together again, all sparkling clean. Also one of the jobs that I've wanted to do for a long time was to replace the 14-yearold decoupling material around, under and on top of the armbase, using large washers I made from an earlier experiment with butyl rubber.
A fine weekend to you!
bulgin
Hey, Hey tubee
It looks like you're having some fun. I still haven't tried the pics thing but I've now formed an opinion about the new arm. (Modestly) I say it is a great improvement over what I had and lookswise it is stunning. The big bonus is never having to hunt around for headshells as it takes sme-types.
To prepare for a proper attentive listening session, I also decided to give all the amp inputs fresh wire-ends and took the whole system apart and at about 6am this morning, everything was put together again, all sparkling clean. Also one of the jobs that I've wanted to do for a long time was to replace the 14-yearold decoupling material around, under and on top of the armbase, using large washers I made from an earlier experiment with butyl rubber.
A fine weekend to you!
bulgin
something organic...
like urushi
http://www.stereophile.com/phonocartridges/1098koetsu
or C37, Dieter makes violins -
http://www.ennemoser.com/c37theory.html
like urushi
http://www.stereophile.com/phonocartridges/1098koetsu
or C37, Dieter makes violins -
http://www.ennemoser.com/c37theory.html
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.