Hi Tubenut,
You may have some information (or opinion) That I have been searching for.
I have the Electrocompaniet ECP 1 phono stage. My understanding is that it is set up with a 10 ohm input impedance.
My cartridge is the Denon DL304 which has a 40 ohm output impedance and a 100 ohm load impedance (whatever that means).
I have been told by others on this forum that this mismatch would cause me to be experiencing a major loss in gain. Also that the cartridge would not sound right, that it would be thin and flat sounding.
What are your thoughts and would you recommend changing the input impedance of the ECP1? If so, have you an opinion on what impedance it should be changed to??
Thanks,
Mark
You may have some information (or opinion) That I have been searching for.
I have the Electrocompaniet ECP 1 phono stage. My understanding is that it is set up with a 10 ohm input impedance.
My cartridge is the Denon DL304 which has a 40 ohm output impedance and a 100 ohm load impedance (whatever that means).
I have been told by others on this forum that this mismatch would cause me to be experiencing a major loss in gain. Also that the cartridge would not sound right, that it would be thin and flat sounding.
What are your thoughts and would you recommend changing the input impedance of the ECP1? If so, have you an opinion on what impedance it should be changed to??
Thanks,
Mark
Hi Mark
My Denon 103 works fine and the ecp1 has sufficient gain for, having played with a Lehman Black Cube over the weekend the levels from either stage (the Cube can be set for all kinds of carts and has a place for a "custom" resistor value on the PCB) are similar.
Guess it is just that Theta DAC in Balanced mode that is so much "louder" then everything else....
I do not believe EC would be dumb enough to make a phono pre that only works witha handfull of carts, as sreten said, the cartridge sets the input impedance and gain and in a way is self adjusting... The 10 Ohm is probably in series not parallel and calling it a load resistor is I suppose a misnomer.
Do not worry about your cart as obviously this stage does not work in the same way as all the others...
Perhaps EC should have done a bit more explaining about the merits and workings of current amplification in the manual...
Do yourself a favour though, get a bigger transformer hooked up to the ECP1, say 80 VA at 40 Volts AC in to the ECP1, you will not believe the improvement, I would say in excess of 30%!!!
The factory supplied mickey mouse wall wart 10 VA supply really lets the ECP1 down....
My Denon 103 works fine and the ecp1 has sufficient gain for, having played with a Lehman Black Cube over the weekend the levels from either stage (the Cube can be set for all kinds of carts and has a place for a "custom" resistor value on the PCB) are similar.
Guess it is just that Theta DAC in Balanced mode that is so much "louder" then everything else....
I do not believe EC would be dumb enough to make a phono pre that only works witha handfull of carts, as sreten said, the cartridge sets the input impedance and gain and in a way is self adjusting... The 10 Ohm is probably in series not parallel and calling it a load resistor is I suppose a misnomer.
Do not worry about your cart as obviously this stage does not work in the same way as all the others...
Perhaps EC should have done a bit more explaining about the merits and workings of current amplification in the manual...
Do yourself a favour though, get a bigger transformer hooked up to the ECP1, say 80 VA at 40 Volts AC in to the ECP1, you will not believe the improvement, I would say in excess of 30%!!!
The factory supplied mickey mouse wall wart 10 VA supply really lets the ECP1 down....
I think the original wall wart was 250 mA @ 42 Volt AC
I run my ECP of a toroidal Txf, 220 V Primary, 40 V Secondary @ 80 VA. The higher current rating probably gives the extra few volts anyway as less then 1/8 the available current is drawn from it....
Before I used a conventional block txf 220 V Pri, 20-0-20 Sec wired to 40 V also at 80 VA.
Cannot say which is better, there was a 6 week break between the block and toroid but both kill the wallwart...
The ECP1 takes AC in so there is no real complicated stuff here.
I run my ECP of a toroidal Txf, 220 V Primary, 40 V Secondary @ 80 VA. The higher current rating probably gives the extra few volts anyway as less then 1/8 the available current is drawn from it....
Before I used a conventional block txf 220 V Pri, 20-0-20 Sec wired to 40 V also at 80 VA.
Cannot say which is better, there was a 6 week break between the block and toroid but both kill the wallwart...
The ECP1 takes AC in so there is no real complicated stuff here.
Hi Tubenut,
You may be interested to know that I printed off this thread and took it to my tech.
He agreed with Sreten that the input resistor could be ommitted from the ECP1 altogether due to its current amplification design.
Well I just got the unit back from him, and boy has this made a difference. I listened to Pink Floyd's Delicate Sound of Thunder live album. The difference is like night and day.
The sound now has a much bigger soundstage, more three dimensionality, lots of air and separation. The dynamic response is lightning quick and the bass extension has been improved. There is also more gain so I don't have to turn the amp up as much either.
The best $30 I ever spent!!
Cheers,
Mark
You may be interested to know that I printed off this thread and took it to my tech.
He agreed with Sreten that the input resistor could be ommitted from the ECP1 altogether due to its current amplification design.
Well I just got the unit back from him, and boy has this made a difference. I listened to Pink Floyd's Delicate Sound of Thunder live album. The difference is like night and day.
The sound now has a much bigger soundstage, more three dimensionality, lots of air and separation. The dynamic response is lightning quick and the bass extension has been improved. There is also more gain so I don't have to turn the amp up as much either.
The best $30 I ever spent!!
Cheers,
Mark
Hi Mark, thanks for sharing that and it is most certainly good worthwhile info.
Also glad the thread has helped someone else and proves I was not going insane when I heard huge differences between different 10R resistors in that place...
I will probably bypass mine over the weekend... Now what to use? Cut off resistor leg? OFC copper wire, some silver I have kicking about?
Choices....
Mark, if you have not already done so, run the ecp of a bigger transformer as well!!!
Also glad the thread has helped someone else and proves I was not going insane when I heard huge differences between different 10R resistors in that place...
I will probably bypass mine over the weekend... Now what to use? Cut off resistor leg? OFC copper wire, some silver I have kicking about?
Choices....
Mark, if you have not already done so, run the ecp of a bigger transformer as well!!!
Hi all
Well, last night the 10R resistors came out and silver wire went in (I have used the same stuff from RCA to PCB already.)
I would agree it is an upgrade with better dynamics bass depth and staging, I just need to get used to the slightly more forceful sound, perhaps a hint of a little hardness.
WRT to the PSU:
I do not know if there is something off the shelf available in your habitat...
You need a say 50 VA or greater 40 Volts AC supply. Perhaps there is something out there but it would probably be a spare part for something else.
Your techie could make this up but keep in mind you will be paying him for drilling holes in a case rather then his expertise as making the box is the bigger job. Wiring it all up takes less then 30 mins.
Perhaps you should get:
40 Volt transformer @50 VA or more
A box the TXF fits in
Some Mains Power Cable
Gland for the incoming power cable
Fuse Holder
Suitably rated fuse
A wire for outgoing power, a thin Taiwanese OFC speaker cable is good, say 18 gauge
A Gland for outgoing power
One of those low voltage power plugs to go into the back of the ECP1, take the ECP1 along as there are many sizes that are visually close....
Then drill the relavent holes and mount al the bits and then take it to your techie to wire up......
Best
Well, last night the 10R resistors came out and silver wire went in (I have used the same stuff from RCA to PCB already.)
I would agree it is an upgrade with better dynamics bass depth and staging, I just need to get used to the slightly more forceful sound, perhaps a hint of a little hardness.
WRT to the PSU:
I do not know if there is something off the shelf available in your habitat...
You need a say 50 VA or greater 40 Volts AC supply. Perhaps there is something out there but it would probably be a spare part for something else.
Your techie could make this up but keep in mind you will be paying him for drilling holes in a case rather then his expertise as making the box is the bigger job. Wiring it all up takes less then 30 mins.
Perhaps you should get:
40 Volt transformer @50 VA or more
A box the TXF fits in
Some Mains Power Cable
Gland for the incoming power cable
Fuse Holder
Suitably rated fuse
A wire for outgoing power, a thin Taiwanese OFC speaker cable is good, say 18 gauge
A Gland for outgoing power
One of those low voltage power plugs to go into the back of the ECP1, take the ECP1 along as there are many sizes that are visually close....
Then drill the relavent holes and mount al the bits and then take it to your techie to wire up......
Best
Hi,
just point out once you have removed the input resistor then the
next thing to point your finger at is the quality of the feedback
resistor. Its value can be reduced to reduce gain. Overload of
the MC gain stage is unlikely, more likely is clipping or slew rate
limiting in the phono stage, especially if it has passive RIAA eq.
/sreten.
just point out once you have removed the input resistor then the
next thing to point your finger at is the quality of the feedback
resistor. Its value can be reduced to reduce gain. Overload of
the MC gain stage is unlikely, more likely is clipping or slew rate
limiting in the phono stage, especially if it has passive RIAA eq.
/sreten.- Status
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