Record quality?

[gary f]

I just bought 2 new vinyls last week.

Artist: Television
Album: Marquee Moon
Label: 4 men with beard (180 gram LP)

Artist: Sleater-Kinney
Album: The woods
Label: Sub Pop

Both these records do not have a nice sound at all. I'm especially disapointed with Marquee Monn since it is a great record, and "audiophile" vinyl quality, but the sound is often harsh, with slight distorsion in the vocals when it is loud, and very harsh drum cymbals most of the time. Sleater Kinney may just be a bad recording, the sound is always harsh and there is distorsion. (sometimes it is intended I'm sure).

I know that these may not be top of the line recordings, but what's going on? I do not have a CD to compare the sound.
Maybe I have problem with my equipment but it is OK most of the time. I have systemdek IIX table with Denon dl-110 and Hagerman Buggle phono preamp with 45 dB gain.

Does anybody have heard these recording? What do you think. The only thing that I can think of right now, is that these 2 recordings are pretty loud. More than other vinyl I have. Maybe they were badly mastered, or maybe my phono preamp is distorting.

Anyway, these are good albums, but I just don't enjoy listening to them as I should because of the sound.

F

[alexmoose]

I hate being disapointed by a brand new vinyl, but it has happened to me before, not with those albums, but it really sucks

I have read before that some newer vinyls are made off of digital masters to save money, which completely eliminates the point of them being vinyls to begin with!

[Zero One]

This sounds familiar, I must go and play my copy of Marquee Moon, it is an original one, from memory, and I haven't played it for 15 years or so it was a pretty coarse recording that had a lot of highs that made my ears bleed, but maybe my memory is bad.

[rsub8d]

Hi,

I’ve been lurking in DIY for a little while, and this is my first post.

Anyways, I have a pressing of Marquee Moon (Elektra 7E-1098), purchased about 25 years ago, and it’s possible that the sound you’re getting with the new pressing is “correct.” There is some harshness and compression to the vocals and percussion (what Zero One was getting at, perhaps?), that can be a bit off-putting, but I think that’s just the way it was recorded / mastered.

On the other hand, Television’s Adventure vinyl has a much warmer and open sound. Almost eerily so. Check out “The Fire” for an example.

I have “The Woods” Sleater Kinney vinyl, and plan on listening to it this weekend, and will report back if you’re interested. I’ve also noticed a bit of a trend towards “adding” distortion on some CD releases. For example, a Radiohead recording that sounds (in places) like a dirty stylus; but it’s not - it’s a CD.

Much more so than Marquee Moon, a recording that I find difficult to listen to is “Wild Gift,” by X (again, an old pressing of the LP). There’s a very weird, cringeworthy sort of “edge” or hangover in the vocal sibilants that sounds like ultrasonic overload happened in the recording chain. I recognized the sound because a preamp I had (long ago) turned out to have a bit of ultrasonic oscillation, and created the same effect.

[Dumbass]

It's important to have some reference records by which one can reliably judge one's system.

[popluhv]

Originally posted by alexmoose


I have read before that some newer vinyls are made off of digital masters to save money, which completely eliminates the point of them being vinyls to begin with!

Yeah, I wish that record companies were required to label their products wish the recording, mastering and end product, e.g. DDA, ADA or AAA.

(stay away from those $9.99 columbia re-prints)

[Dumbass]

Originally posted by popluhv
Yeah, I wish that record companies were required to label their products wish the recording, mastering and end product, e.g. DDA, ADA or AAA.

At the end of day, those labels are pretty irrelevant to the sound quality. Furthermore, a lot of records these days are hybrids, i.e. you might have a digital recorder sync'd to an analog tape machine, etc etc.

[popluhv]

True, I have a particularly good Nick Cave EP, which was digitally recorded. However, in the case of reprinted albums, it would be nice to know which were from the original masters, and which were digitally remastered (and possibly "cleaned up", for better or worse).

[Dumbass]

Originally posted by popluhv
However, in the case of reprinted albums, it would be nice to know which were from the original masters, and which were digitally remastered (and possibly "cleaned up", for better or worse).

Unfortunately, it is rare for a manufacturer to even consider giving out such information. The presumption is that the vast majority of consumers don't really care. Also, that information is in some sense a marketing secret. So instead of seeing this message on the packaging:
"We procured an old master tape of unknown provenance, dumped it onto a hard drive, tried to make up for missing highs with some EQ, then used the same master for the CD and LP releases."
we see
"Remastered from source tapes!"

[modder]

Just listened to the first side, twice - original vinyl recording. Not at all harsh - but it is loud, "an assault on the senses" with lots going on, so if it gets muddled it will sound awful!

The second track Venus has a guitar playing bell-like notes, great rhythm.
Track 3 seems to be better recorded? Maybe it's just the middle of the record so it's tracking better.

Years ago I played this LP a couple of times with a Denon 160 and didn't like it one bit.

Things to consider to reduce harshness (- is this mistracking, or too much treble output?):
1. increase cartridge impedance for moving coils
2. lower the arm slightly to reduce treble output. Changing the arm height to to track records correctly can be important. A record can have its own particular required setting! Some records sound distorted no matter what I do, but then that's probably groove damage.
3. Increase cartridge weight. Playing at max rec weight makes sense.

Vinyl will give a big 3-dimensional sound if it's a true analogue source. A digital recording is just that - on any silver disk and when recorded to vinyl - digitally processed, flat and 2-dimensional by comparison. And God save us from digital remasters!