Record quality?

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I just bought 2 new vinyls last week.

Artist: Television
Album: Marquee Moon
Label: 4 men with beard (180 gram LP)

Artist: Sleater-Kinney
Album: The woods
Label: Sub Pop

Both these records do not have a nice sound at all. I'm especially disapointed with Marquee Monn since it is a great record, and "audiophile" vinyl quality, but the sound is often harsh, with slight distorsion in the vocals when it is loud, and very harsh drum cymbals most of the time. Sleater Kinney may just be a bad recording, the sound is always harsh and there is distorsion. (sometimes it is intended I'm sure).

I know that these may not be top of the line recordings, but what's going on? I do not have a CD to compare the sound.
Maybe I have problem with my equipment but it is OK most of the time. I have systemdek IIX table with Denon dl-110 and Hagerman Buggle phono preamp with 45 dB gain.

Does anybody have heard these recording? What do you think. The only thing that I can think of right now, is that these 2 recordings are pretty loud. More than other vinyl I have. Maybe they were badly mastered, or maybe my phono preamp is distorting.

Anyway, these are good albums, but I just don't enjoy listening to them as I should because of the sound.

F
 
I hate being disapointed by a brand new vinyl, but it has happened to me before, not with those albums, but it really sucks

I have read before that some newer vinyls are made off of digital masters to save money, which completely eliminates the point of them being vinyls to begin with!
 
Hi,

I’ve been lurking in DIY for a little while, and this is my first post.

Anyways, I have a pressing of Marquee Moon (Elektra 7E-1098), purchased about 25 years ago, and it’s possible that the sound you’re getting with the new pressing is “correct.” There is some harshness and compression to the vocals and percussion (what Zero One was getting at, perhaps?), that can be a bit off-putting, but I think that’s just the way it was recorded / mastered.

On the other hand, Television’s Adventure vinyl has a much warmer and open sound. Almost eerily so. Check out “The Fire” for an example.

I have “The Woods” Sleater Kinney vinyl, and plan on listening to it this weekend, and will report back if you’re interested. I’ve also noticed a bit of a trend towards “adding” distortion on some CD releases. For example, a Radiohead recording that sounds (in places) like a dirty stylus; but it’s not - it’s a CD.

Much more so than Marquee Moon, a recording that I find difficult to listen to is “Wild Gift,” by X (again, an old pressing of the LP). There’s a very weird, cringeworthy sort of “edge” or hangover in the vocal sibilants that sounds like ultrasonic overload happened in the recording chain. I recognized the sound because a preamp I had (long ago) turned out to have a bit of ultrasonic oscillation, and created the same effect.
 
alexmoose said:


I have read before that some newer vinyls are made off of digital masters to save money, which completely eliminates the point of them being vinyls to begin with!


Yeah, I wish that record companies were required to label their products wish the recording, mastering and end product, e.g. DDA, ADA or AAA.

(stay away from those $9.99 columbia re-prints)
 
popluhv said:
Yeah, I wish that record companies were required to label their products wish the recording, mastering and end product, e.g. DDA, ADA or AAA.
At the end of day, those labels are pretty irrelevant to the sound quality. Furthermore, a lot of records these days are hybrids, i.e. you might have a digital recorder sync'd to an analog tape machine, etc etc.
 
True, I have a particularly good Nick Cave EP, which was digitally recorded. However, in the case of reprinted albums, it would be nice to know which were from the original masters, and which were digitally remastered (and possibly "cleaned up", for better or worse).
 
popluhv said:
However, in the case of reprinted albums, it would be nice to know which were from the original masters, and which were digitally remastered (and possibly "cleaned up", for better or worse).
Unfortunately, it is rare for a manufacturer to even consider giving out such information. The presumption is that the vast majority of consumers don't really care. Also, that information is in some sense a marketing secret. So instead of seeing this message on the packaging:
"We procured an old master tape of unknown provenance, dumped it onto a hard drive, tried to make up for missing highs with some EQ, then used the same master for the CD and LP releases."
we see
"Remastered from source tapes!"
 
marquee moon

Just listened to the first side, twice - original vinyl recording. Not at all harsh - but it is loud, "an assault on the senses" with lots going on, so if it gets muddled it will sound awful!

The second track Venus has a guitar playing bell-like notes, great rhythm.
Track 3 seems to be better recorded? Maybe it's just the middle of the record so it's tracking better.

Years ago I played this LP a couple of times with a Denon 160 and didn't like it one bit.

Things to consider to reduce harshness (- is this mistracking, or too much treble output?):
1. increase cartridge impedance for moving coils
2. lower the arm slightly to reduce treble output. Changing the arm height to to track records correctly can be important. A record can have its own particular required setting! Some records sound distorted no matter what I do, but then that's probably groove damage.
3. Increase cartridge weight. Playing at max rec weight makes sense.

Vinyl will give a big 3-dimensional sound if it's a true analogue source. A digital recording is just that - on any silver disk and when recorded to vinyl - digitally processed, flat and 2-dimensional by comparison. And God save us from digital remasters!
 
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Actually these days there is so little market for LP's in the United States that they are generally considered to be niche market items and are often well produced and mastered - and obviously priced to match. The "public" buying these recordings cares a great deal about the quality. Look in stereopile and absolute mound for reviews.. :devilr:

Artists like Neil Young are very conscious of the difference in quality between analog LP recordings and CD's and apparently have enough clout to insist on analog mastered LP's even now. I have not heard the latest release, but I have earlier ones which were made well into the CD era and sound stunning - from a major non-audiophile recording company.

Some of the best sounding pop recordings I have on LP were released well into the CD era, and when it clearly made no sense to do so.

I currently have a very vintage Thorens TD-125 (MKI) with an SME 3009 Series II arm and a Grado 8MR cartridge. Pre-amplifier is based on passive eq'd topology with fairly high transconductance sub-mini tubes.
Set up sounds pretty good to me, I definitely prefer it to my SACD player.
 
Yeah, Neil young is keeping it real! Also, I believe Steve Albini of Electric Audio can be thanked for much of contemporary rock being well recorded and available on analog too. Shellac and Songs: Ohia, to name a couple.

Most of the music I buy is new vinyl of contemporary music. I wouldn't have bothered with it at all if new music was not available on vinyl.
 
Also, I believe Steve Albini of Electric Audio can be thanked for much of contemporary rock being well recorded and available on analog too. Shellac and Songs: Ohia, to name a couple.

Funny you should mention Songs: Ohia – I had some pretty noisy/crackling LPs from them which I returned to the record shop. A friend of mine made a similar experience, both of us are no longer buying LPs from their label (Secretly Canadian). So I now listen to Songs: Ohia on CD and keep enjoying the music which by the way is very well recorded.

Just listened to the first side, twice - original vinyl recording. Not at all harsh - but it is loud, "an assault on the senses" with lots going on, so if it gets muddled it will sound awful!

This summarises it pretty well. I compared an old Marquee Moon CD (AAD) to my 4 men with beard LP. Switching between the two the sound, or tonal balance, is pretty much the same, I cannot say that one is more aggressive or harsh sounding than the other, and I could not hear any real distortion that I would say comes from the LP itself.

Overall, the LP better focusses the instruments and sounds somewhat clearer, and with better timbre of the instruments, so that I prefer the LP. I get really "drawn into the music" so that I can listen to it repeatedly without experiencing any listening fatigue.
 
I've been away a few days, so I have not followed since today. Thanks for your opinions guys.


"There is some harshness and compression to the vocals and percussion (what Zero One was getting at, perhaps?), that can be a bit off-putting, but I think that’s just the way it was recorded / mastered."
-Sound similar to me.
If you get to listen to Sleater-Kinney, give me your opinion RSUB8D. The vinyl is great looking by the way.

Generally, my vinyl set-up is s slightly less good sounding than my CD set-up
I'll check that out...
Bye
F
 
Steve Albini hates the music industry, so you know he's one of the good guys. He started as an "underground" music writer. He was very influential and has written several enlightening pieces. He was the brain behind the best band of the 1980s, Big Black.

Being a man of taste, he hated the CD from day one. "This compact disc [Big Black: The Rich Man's Eight Track Tape], compiled to exploit those of you gullible enough to own the bastardly first generation digital home music system, contains all analog masters. Compact discs are quite durable, this being their only advantage over real music media. You should take every opportunity to scratch them, fingerprint them and eat egg and bacon sandwiches off them. Don't worry about their longevity, as Philips will pronounce them obsolete when the next phase of the market-squeezing technology bonanza begins."

Not that it's of much help, Japanese vinyl pressings are still the best. Record stores here always stocked Japanese pressings of select albums back in the 1970s and 80s.

Rock music on CD is like automatic transmission on a Harley.
 
gary f,

Sorry to take so long to get back.

Regarding the Sleater Kinney album: it's just as you reported.

First, the good: As you said, the vinyl is very pretty. They did a nice job with the coloring.

And that's about it for the good...

The music sounds heavily compressed. What's worse, the "loud" parts are distorted. You know, there are certain records that have a "punch" that makes you want to just crank them up? Not the case here.

I felt a glimmer of hope on "Modern Girl," the vocal intro is clean and open. But wait: here come those smashed guitars again!

As for the second disc: my copy had a warp in the lead-in groove that was so bad, it actually threw the tonearm in the air! :Ouch: I have never seen such a badly warped LP. What probably happened is that the record was handled before it had enough time to properly cool from the stamper. This is one case where a vacuum turntable might have helped (a record clamp did not, because the warped area is dished upwards).

In case you're wondering, I'm running a Thorens TD160 MkII with the low mass version of the TP16 tonearm and Ortofon Kontrapunkt b cartridge (I had to machine a special adapter out of Delrin to mount the cartridge; the Thorens headshell only accepts cartridges with through-hole type mounts; the Kb uses tapped holes).

Finally, I flipped the disc, expecting music on the "log" patterned "side 4." Bzzzzzt! Surprise: it's blank! No music, just a waste of vinyl. What about the oil crisis? Oh well, at least it gave me the opportunity to check my anti-skating adjustment (set a bit too low, as it happens).
 
Same thing for me. The end of modern girl is almost unlistenable, but the distorsion seems intended. Strange...
My vinyl is also a bit warped. Anybody has the CD to check if the sound is bad? Maybe the mixing is like this...

PHN, by the way, I think that CD is a great format. I sure love vinyl, but CD is far from sounding bad, whatever Steve Albini thinks...

F
 
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