I have some old SME 3009 II tone arms. I'm thinking of mating one to a Kenwood KD500 TT. Worth doing? Is the bronze bearing upgrade for the SME tonearm worthwhile? Is this tonearm considered to be a low mass arm? I have a Grado Gold and an original Sumiko Blue Point. which would be a more appropriate combination with the SME arm? Is there a rule of thumb fro compliance vs. effective mass?
I cannot see why not, though I personally think the tonearm is the most overrated component on a turntable. It's medium mass, by today's standard. Analogue Classics.
The bronze bearing, as you know, gets favorable reviews. But I think only you can decide if the price tag is justified. Yours at least has a steel bearing and not the plastic one found on some later models. The Sumiko looks like a perfect match.
The bronze bearing, as you know, gets favorable reviews. But I think only you can decide if the price tag is justified. Yours at least has a steel bearing and not the plastic one found on some later models. The Sumiko looks like a perfect match.
I'll probably try one of the arms as is before I spring for the new bearing. However, I have to keep in mind that the arms (3 of them) have been jumbled around in a box for a while, and the plastic bearings may have suffered. They were discards from the college radio station where I DJ. Between the 3 arms, I have enough bits and bobs to get at least one working.
Hi,
I also have an SME 3009 arm (mk11 improved fixed headhshell). I've had conflicting advice on a suitable cartridge and I'm now muddled.
Is this arm too light for a MC cartridge and if so which MM to go for?
Hope I'm not hijacking this thread, just have the same kind of problem!
Cheers, Nam402
I also have an SME 3009 arm (mk11 improved fixed headhshell). I've had conflicting advice on a suitable cartridge and I'm now muddled.
Is this arm too light for a MC cartridge and if so which MM to go for?
Hope I'm not hijacking this thread, just have the same kind of problem!
Cheers, Nam402
Nam402, you can use pretty much any MC cart that works with the modern SME and Rega arms. You have to look for a high-compliant cart, under 15 mN. The problem is that they tend to be expensive. At least I know of no cheap one. Hopefully somebody that uses high-compliant carts can recommend something.
As for MM, Goldring should do. Of course, so will Ortofon, Shure, and any other MM cart. I like Goldring. But I'm not the kind of guy that recommends on thing over another. Only you can decide what suits you best.
As for MM, Goldring should do. Of course, so will Ortofon, Shure, and any other MM cart. I like Goldring. But I'm not the kind of guy that recommends on thing over another. Only you can decide what suits you best.
Nam402 said:
Hi,
just more MMs to add to your list :
The Audio Technica AT120E/T is the cheapest out
there (AFAIK) fitted with a quality nude elliptical tip.
The Audio Technica AT440MLa is the cheapest square
nude extended contact tip out there, tip lasts ~ twice
as long as the above.
Both would be execellent buys for the SME if they
suit your system - they are brighter than most.
If you need a duller sound then The Grado Green is an option.
The Ortofon 520 or 530 are very neutral and work very well.
The Goldring equivalents 1006 and 1012GX would also work
well, if you've a knackered cartridge lying around you can
get a very good discount on these at mantra-audio.co.uk.
/sreten.
Well, I don't doubt that there's better arms out there than the 3009, just as there's lots better turntables than the KD500. However, the tonearm I have will work lots better than that elusive perfect tonearm I don't have, especially as the 3009s were free. If I opened the floor to questions about what that perfect arm might be, I'd get N+1 violently differing opinions, (N being a large integer) and I'd be no better off than I am now. I'll use what I've got, maybe fix it up a bit. If I don't like the sound, then I'll sell it.
BTW, what I've got is three more or less intact arms, the only loose bits being the anti-skating weights. If I do anything with the other arms, maybe I'd sell one of them and get a high output Denon MC cartridge., which may sound better than the old original Blue Point I've got.
BTW, what I've got is three more or less intact arms, the only loose bits being the anti-skating weights. If I do anything with the other arms, maybe I'd sell one of them and get a high output Denon MC cartridge., which may sound better than the old original Blue Point I've got.
Hi wrenchone,
before you use rules of thumb for soundwise best matching of cart/arm, you need to know which resonance frequency that combination has. This should be less than 12Hz.
Take
Fres = 1000 / 2*phi* srqt( M*C)
where M is Mass of cart + effective mass of the arm, and C is the dynamic compliance of the cart. The effective mass is not the simply the weight, but is given in the user manual or on several places on the net. Be careful, as there are quite a few different versions of those arms around. Some are light (the 3009 III-series and the ones with fixed headshell), most others are on the heavy side and perform quite well with the famous DL103, for instance.
You then need to reassure the resonance F. with a test record, because the carts compliance may differ significantly from the nominal value and you can't be sure that your arm is indeed the one you have the data for.
The brass blades are worthwhile if you don't have steel bearings, but check first if the arm meets your requirements as those 3009'es are indeed overrated, at least some incarnations. But they perform well on subchassis players, otoh.
HTH,
Rüdiger
before you use rules of thumb for soundwise best matching of cart/arm, you need to know which resonance frequency that combination has. This should be less than 12Hz.
Take
Fres = 1000 / 2*phi* srqt( M*C)
where M is Mass of cart + effective mass of the arm, and C is the dynamic compliance of the cart. The effective mass is not the simply the weight, but is given in the user manual or on several places on the net. Be careful, as there are quite a few different versions of those arms around. Some are light (the 3009 III-series and the ones with fixed headshell), most others are on the heavy side and perform quite well with the famous DL103, for instance.
You then need to reassure the resonance F. with a test record, because the carts compliance may differ significantly from the nominal value and you can't be sure that your arm is indeed the one you have the data for.
The brass blades are worthwhile if you don't have steel bearings, but check first if the arm meets your requirements as those 3009'es are indeed overrated, at least some incarnations. But they perform well on subchassis players, otoh.
HTH,
Rüdiger
I have the Hi-Fi News test record, which includes a tonearm resonance test band. I's amusing to play it and watch the speaker cones suck in and out. My current system resonates at a bit below 10 Hz - maybe about 8 Hz. It also breaks up very obviously at resonance. I'm currently using a Kenwood KD-2055 with the Grado Gold.
For the last time, I know there are better tonearms out there, but it's not like I went out and spent hundreds of dollars on my 3009s - they were free. All I want to know is how to best use what I've got.
It's going to be interesting figuring out how to estimate effective arm mass, as I'll be using a non-standard carbon fiber head shell. It sounds like I can backtrack by measuring the resonant frequency of the arm-stylus system using a cartridge of known compliance and use that info to calculate effective mass. It's a very simple matter to put a frequecy counter or a scope at the output terminals of my amp to measure the exact resonant frequency.
For the last time, I know there are better tonearms out there, but it's not like I went out and spent hundreds of dollars on my 3009s - they were free. All I want to know is how to best use what I've got.
It's going to be interesting figuring out how to estimate effective arm mass, as I'll be using a non-standard carbon fiber head shell. It sounds like I can backtrack by measuring the resonant frequency of the arm-stylus system using a cartridge of known compliance and use that info to calculate effective mass. It's a very simple matter to put a frequecy counter or a scope at the output terminals of my amp to measure the exact resonant frequency.
wrenchone said:
My point was that people pay ridiculous money for these -- even in pieces. I got something like $120 for one with a multilated headshell, no cable, no antiskate and who knows what bearing condition. That is ~half-way to an RB250 (at least the last time we got one). With 3 mostly whole ones....
dave
Wrenchone,
i'm not telling you to throw your arms away but to check if you can live with the arm sonically before investing in expensive upgrades.
And yes, you can back-calculate from the measured resonance-freq (if all bearings are in at least fair working condition and the arm is set up correctly, of course).
Rüdiger
i'm not telling you to throw your arms away but to check if you can live with the arm sonically before investing in expensive upgrades.
And yes, you can back-calculate from the measured resonance-freq (if all bearings are in at least fair working condition and the arm is set up correctly, of course).
Rüdiger
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