Hi all,
Anyone have a recommendation for someone who does good quality TT drivebelts. Needs to be 4-5mm flat belt (I think 526mm long) for an ariston RD80sl. The drive pulley is domed so I can't use round belt/mylar/dental floss etc etc.
Last belt I bought gives wow every few weeks until I talc it again then is OK.
Anyone any ideas?
Fran
Anyone have a recommendation for someone who does good quality TT drivebelts. Needs to be 4-5mm flat belt (I think 526mm long) for an ariston RD80sl. The drive pulley is domed so I can't use round belt/mylar/dental floss etc etc.
Last belt I bought gives wow every few weeks until I talc it again then is OK.
Anyone any ideas?
Fran
DIY?
Why don't you make one using some old audio cassette tape? Splice with some scotch tape and adjust till you get the length right. This would be very quite as it has so little mass compared to a rubber belt. Cost you nothing to try. Seems to be the rage with mega dollar TT's these days. Regards Moray James.
Why don't you make one using some old audio cassette tape? Splice with some scotch tape and adjust till you get the length right. This would be very quite as it has so little mass compared to a rubber belt. Cost you nothing to try. Seems to be the rage with mega dollar TT's these days. Regards Moray James.
mmmmm..
never thought of audio tape. Was thinking of mylar type stuff alright as per the teres site.
I'll try it later tonight (hopefully) and report back. If I remember rightly there used to be a little gizmo that you could use to splice tape together. Kind of a <$10 item.
...... 5 mins later......
I suppose I'd need a bit of tension on this... might make two and see what works.
Anyone out there done it already can give me pointers?
Fran
never thought of audio tape. Was thinking of mylar type stuff alright as per the teres site.
I'll try it later tonight (hopefully) and report back. If I remember rightly there used to be a little gizmo that you could use to splice tape together. Kind of a <$10 item.
...... 5 mins later......
I suppose I'd need a bit of tension on this... might make two and see what works.
Anyone out there done it already can give me pointers?
Fran
'secondsglue'..)OK, made the belt from some audio tape.
Impressions - very fiddly to get the right length but easy to splice, but the real stumbling block was that at the right length it is impossible to fit it on my ariston RD80 TT -(think LP12 clone). The suspended chassis makes it difficult to use one of these as a drive belt, but also on this TT, the motor pulley for 33 RPM is below the 45RPM pulley and so you have to force it over the big pulley and then down to the smaller one - not easy! The resulting tension also played heavily on teh motor bearing which became very noisy.
After about an hour or so, about 5 tape belts, increased motor noise, and the air blue with language, I went back to the rubber flat belt.
My next step will be to give the surface of the belt a rub with some sandpaper to roughen the surface a bit and hopefully add a bit more grip.
I can see how this type of belt would be excellent for TTs with separate motors eg teres- but for LP12 TD160,and ariston owners I don't think its the way to go.
Thanks to those for the help - when I eventually make my DIY TT tape drive is the way I'll go for it
Fran
Impressions - very fiddly to get the right length but easy to splice, but the real stumbling block was that at the right length it is impossible to fit it on my ariston RD80 TT -(think LP12 clone). The suspended chassis makes it difficult to use one of these as a drive belt, but also on this TT, the motor pulley for 33 RPM is below the 45RPM pulley and so you have to force it over the big pulley and then down to the smaller one - not easy! The resulting tension also played heavily on teh motor bearing which became very noisy.
After about an hour or so, about 5 tape belts, increased motor noise, and the air blue with language, I went back to the rubber flat belt.
My next step will be to give the surface of the belt a rub with some sandpaper to roughen the surface a bit and hopefully add a bit more grip.
I can see how this type of belt would be excellent for TTs with separate motors eg teres- but for LP12 TD160,and ariston owners I don't think its the way to go.
Thanks to those for the help - when I eventually make my DIY TT tape drive is the way I'll go for it
Fran
A for effort!
Sounds like you made a valliant effort to make this idea work. If you are going to be using your 45 rpm pully then you are stuck with the problem of the fixed motor mount. However if you were going to use 33.3 rpm only then the tape could be assembled right on the hub and pully with some effort. That way you could get the tension right and go, as long as you did not plan to change speed. You could at least run this way for a while and get a good feel for how the audio tape sounds. Thanks for putting in the effort to try out this idea and for letting us all know how it went. Best regards Moray James.
Sounds like you made a valliant effort to make this idea work. If you are going to be using your 45 rpm pully then you are stuck with the problem of the fixed motor mount. However if you were going to use 33.3 rpm only then the tape could be assembled right on the hub and pully with some effort. That way you could get the tension right and go, as long as you did not plan to change speed. You could at least run this way for a while and get a good feel for how the audio tape sounds. Thanks for putting in the effort to try out this idea and for letting us all know how it went. Best regards Moray James.
Fran: To refresh the top layer of hardened rubber, its possible to clean the old belt with clean raffinated petrol, ("wasbenzine" in dutch) but regular automobile petrol works also (exept for the smell)
Result is better than with sand paper, the belt will have grip again.
An other idea: (let) make a new pulley with small grooves on motor spindle to fit a thin round diy belt of elastic clothing fibre.
Result is better than with sand paper, the belt will have grip again.
An other idea: (let) make a new pulley with small grooves on motor spindle to fit a thin round diy belt of elastic clothing fibre.
Thats a good idea.
Actually since I started this topic I went back and managed to unearth a copy of the manual for the TT and it actually says in the manual that if you get wow you should clean the belt with some lighter fluid and then coat with the chalk supplied.
So lighter fluid is kerosene I think, which I would have, do you think I should use talc or not?
Talc would seem to make the belt smoother? but yet at the moment it does take the wow out when it occurs.
what do you think?
Fran
Actually since I started this topic I went back and managed to unearth a copy of the manual for the TT and it actually says in the manual that if you get wow you should clean the belt with some lighter fluid and then coat with the chalk supplied.
So lighter fluid is kerosene I think, which I would have, do you think I should use talc or not?
Talc would seem to make the belt smoother? but yet at the moment it does take the wow out when it occurs.
what do you think?
Fran
OK, actually cleaned it with some petrol first. Quite a lot of black comes off as you pull the belt through the cloth.
Allowed the belt to dry for a few minutes and have it on the TT now running without adding any talc. Haven't even listened yet.
It'll take maybe a month to be sure whether it works or not, but I'll report back then. If theres still wow, I'll clean it again and talc it and after that its a case of new belt.
Maybe new belts still have a residue on them and this cleaning needs to be done as a matter of course!
Fran
Allowed the belt to dry for a few minutes and have it on the TT now running without adding any talc. Haven't even listened yet.
It'll take maybe a month to be sure whether it works or not, but I'll report back then. If theres still wow, I'll clean it again and talc it and after that its a case of new belt.
Maybe new belts still have a residue on them and this cleaning needs to be done as a matter of course!
Fran
woodturner-fran said:
Kerosene is usually not used as lighter fluid. According to Wikipedia, liquid butane is often used as lighter fluid for lighters with wicks these days. From another of my interests, in bushwalking, I know that lighter fluid is commonly used in fuel stoves, and is also known as white spirit, white gas, or shellite. See http://home.vicnet.net.au/~bnt/fstoves.htm , who say shellite is a very highly refined petrol, or http://members.iinet.net.au/~mbuckler/fuel/index.shtml#whitespiritgas , who give an explanation of what fuels are called in different countries around the world.
However, I must warn you that petrol shouldn't be used as a solvent - most mechanics are warned off it, because it contains cancerous additives designed to keep your car's fuel system and motor clean. (I also have a keen interest in cars!) Turpentine or kerosene are usually used by mechanics (including occasional ones like me) to clean car components, because they are much safer than petrol, and don't cause as many problems through breathing the fumes, or inadvertently getting them on skin.
Talc is recommended by many turntable manufacturers for use on turntable drive belts - it also absorbs oily deposits caused by handling the belt without cotton gloves, which is another recommendation by manuafacturers to reduce wow. I think talc also acts to cause some slippage, to prevent the belt stretching too much when the turntable is initially starting up. I think it's probably a good thing to use occasionally, depending on how much use your turntable gets. Some manufacturers also recommend cleaning the section that the belt bears on on the motor pulley and turntable pulley, using something like methylated spirits, to prevent a build up of rubber causing wow or flutter.
OK,
almost 2 months up now and the belt is working fine.
So just to recap, I simply cleaned the belt by pulling it through a rag soaked in petrol. Loads of black gunge came off. Allowed it to dry, refitted and its going fine ever since. No talc used.
This was a brand new belt.
Since this looks like tis a permanent fix, I probably won't report back here again,
thanks to all for the help!
fran
almost 2 months up now and the belt is working fine.
So just to recap, I simply cleaned the belt by pulling it through a rag soaked in petrol. Loads of black gunge came off. Allowed it to dry, refitted and its going fine ever since. No talc used.
This was a brand new belt.
Since this looks like tis a permanent fix, I probably won't report back here again,
thanks to all for the help!
fran
Hi
I own one RD80 and have been using it for 30 years now.
The TT is in stock condition apart from a new belt and two RCA output plugs fitted so I can use propper cables.
The components are:
Tone arm - SME 3009 (Light arm tube with fixed headshell) upgraded with bigger counterweight to balance the new cart.
Cartridge - Benz ACE Medium output (Clear cristal body)
After heavily modding my CD53, I discovered I would also need to upgrade the TT so I could get the same level of detail and bass attack.
Recently bought a SRM TECH spindle support pad and am now considering the Linn Black springs.
Should these springs be suitable for this TT?
Best regards
Ricardo
I own one RD80 and have been using it for 30 years now.
The TT is in stock condition apart from a new belt and two RCA output plugs fitted so I can use propper cables.
The components are:
Tone arm - SME 3009 (Light arm tube with fixed headshell) upgraded with bigger counterweight to balance the new cart.
Cartridge - Benz ACE Medium output (Clear cristal body)
After heavily modding my CD53, I discovered I would also need to upgrade the TT so I could get the same level of detail and bass attack.
Recently bought a SRM TECH spindle support pad and am now considering the Linn Black springs.
Should these springs be suitable for this TT?
Best regards
Ricardo
well consider...
a good set of internal tonearm wires, and perhaps a better AC motor controller or convert to DC.
I believe the RD80 can use the Linn springs, but I have no personal experience with any Ariston tables. Somehow a new belt (properly dressed in chalk as per the owner's manual), a properly set up suspension (not unlike the LP12) and new/better internal arm wiring can definitely help. Please remember that much of the bass "slam" available to a cd player is false, and that many have suggested properly set up tables can sound "light weight" when compared to a cd player. Perhaps the biggest improvement would be to go to a DC motor design or build a DIY "Armageddon" power supply for the table. If an Airpax is used as in the Linn, they tend to like 72 Volts or so for good quite operation.
stew
a good set of internal tonearm wires, and perhaps a better AC motor controller or convert to DC.
I believe the RD80 can use the Linn springs, but I have no personal experience with any Ariston tables. Somehow a new belt (properly dressed in chalk as per the owner's manual), a properly set up suspension (not unlike the LP12) and new/better internal arm wiring can definitely help. Please remember that much of the bass "slam" available to a cd player is false, and that many have suggested properly set up tables can sound "light weight" when compared to a cd player. Perhaps the biggest improvement would be to go to a DC motor design or build a DIY "Armageddon" power supply for the table. If an Airpax is used as in the Linn, they tend to like 72 Volts or so for good quite operation.
stew
Yes,
you can use the linn springs - I did on mine.
other things to do while you're in there:
1. Add some damping material to the subchassis
2. Glue some corner blocks to the chassis to stengthen the frame
3. Definitely make a DIY version of the naim armageddon PS. Big improvements to be had here.
4. Make a simple wooden frame that will support the TT level while you have the bottom panel removed. Makes life very easy for levelling and getting the bounce correct.
Fran
you can use the linn springs - I did on mine.
other things to do while you're in there:
1. Add some damping material to the subchassis
2. Glue some corner blocks to the chassis to stengthen the frame
3. Definitely make a DIY version of the naim armageddon PS. Big improvements to be had here.
4. Make a simple wooden frame that will support the TT level while you have the bottom panel removed. Makes life very easy for levelling and getting the bounce correct.
Fran
Re: well consider...
My new belt is properly dressed in chalk as per the owner's manual (I still have the original chalk bottle)
Adding damping to the subchassis will add weight supported by the springs... Does this modify it´s frequency ressonance ?
About the armageddon... would you please indicate some reading ?
Thank you very much for all the help.
Regards
Ricardo
Thank you stewNanook said:
My new belt is properly dressed in chalk as per the owner's manual (I still have the original chalk bottle)
Hi Franwoodturner-fran said:
Adding damping to the subchassis will add weight supported by the springs... Does this modify it´s frequency ressonance ?
About the armageddon... would you please indicate some reading ?
Thank you very much for all the help.
Regards
Ricardo
Damp it with some lightweight material - I used a kind of neoprene foam that was sticky on one side.
Some reading on the armageddon:
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-22291.html
and:
http://www.areyoulocal.com/Geddon.asp
and:
http://www.neilmcbride.co.uk/ttpsu.html
Basically get a big transformer with 2 x 55V secondaries. Wire these in series to give you a nominal 110V. This is then adjusted down by adding in a series resistor (between 3-10K 5W) to bring down the voltage to around 65-70V. A 0.22uF cap is used to create a phase shift for the second winding on the motor. IIRC, you tap off the the 2 coloured wires before and after this cap. What you want is the lowest volts that allows the TT to start reliably - this also means the lowest amount of vibration in teh motor. I believe that Naim use a 300Va transformer, but i think I had a 160Va one.
Fran
Some reading on the armageddon:
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-22291.html
and:
http://www.areyoulocal.com/Geddon.asp
and:
http://www.neilmcbride.co.uk/ttpsu.html
Basically get a big transformer with 2 x 55V secondaries. Wire these in series to give you a nominal 110V. This is then adjusted down by adding in a series resistor (between 3-10K 5W) to bring down the voltage to around 65-70V. A 0.22uF cap is used to create a phase shift for the second winding on the motor. IIRC, you tap off the the 2 coloured wires before and after this cap. What you want is the lowest volts that allows the TT to start reliably - this also means the lowest amount of vibration in teh motor. I believe that Naim use a 300Va transformer, but i think I had a 160Va one.
Fran
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