greetings Carlo, as a funtion of performance what is more important ,the correct bias or correct tracking anglle, I know obviosly both would be desirable but if you are stuck with 9in arms because of high compliance carts how important is tracking angle. by the way the weather in melbourne is superb so get your passport up to date and come on over
cheers fergs
cheers fergs
RADICAL NEW ANTI-SKATING METHOD
....OR AN OLD CHESTNUT?
THE ANTI-SKATE MECHANISM IS NOW PHYSICALLY LIBERATED FROM THE TURNTABLE BODY
on a virtually frictionless unipivot it could be a very elegant solution
Because the bar-magnet can be rotated-thus you don't have to orientate your turntable magnetic-north or anything daft like that
comments?
....OR AN OLD CHESTNUT?
THE ANTI-SKATE MECHANISM IS NOW PHYSICALLY LIBERATED FROM THE TURNTABLE BODY
on a virtually frictionless unipivot it could be a very elegant solution
Because the bar-magnet can be rotated-thus you don't have to orientate your turntable magnetic-north or anything daft like that
comments?
Attachments
compass antiskating
To Eggzy:
The earth magnatic field is not enough strong,then to adjust the antiskating you have to turn the whole turntable looking at the compass.
It seems to me not pratical.
Best regards,
Carlo
To Fergs 1,
here in Italy the weather is foggy,or rainy,everything is grey.
Unluckily here I have a lot of problems to resolve,I can not leave
now.
Best regards,
Carlo
To Eggzy:
The earth magnatic field is not enough strong,then to adjust the antiskating you have to turn the whole turntable looking at the compass.
It seems to me not pratical.
Best regards,
Carlo
To Fergs 1,
here in Italy the weather is foggy,or rainy,everything is grey.
Unluckily here I have a lot of problems to resolve,I can not leave
now.
Best regards,
Carlo
Morsiani
Morsiani,
you said:
"then to adjust the antiskating you have to turn the whole turntable looking at the compass"
...no you would simply rotate the bar magnet 'X' amount of degrees clockwise of north [see amended drawing]
also you say:
"The earth magnatic field is not enough strong"
Maybe a big enough Neo magnet would do it
Eric
Morsiani,
you said:
"then to adjust the antiskating you have to turn the whole turntable looking at the compass"
...no you would simply rotate the bar magnet 'X' amount of degrees clockwise of north [see amended drawing]
also you say:
"The earth magnatic field is not enough strong"
Maybe a big enough Neo magnet would do it
Eric
Attachments
Dear Carlo Morsiani,
You saved my sanity!
Two years ego I switched from CDs to vinyl. I needed a better source to compliment my DIY speakers. When setting my first audiophile TT I found out that antiskate adjustment was not working. When I complained I was scalded by vinyl gurus and told to be happy. That really ticked me off. I tried a different arm with a different antiskate system – still no luck. I decided to build my own TT and tonearms. I build two Schroeder clones and still had a problem with antiskate. This time I could not blame the manufacturer! I did some thinking and came to a conclusion that all three designers are wrong. All 3 tonearms had antiskate designed to increase the force toward the center off LP.
I found your posts on the subject today and a link to your website. Eureka! Finally someone who shares my views! You made me very happy. Thank you!
It felt like there was a conspiracy to make me think I was nuts since I was the only one who would not accept tonearms with bad antiskate design.
I have some ideas how to fix my Schroeder clones for correct antiskate operation. I will share when ready.
Marek Stojek
http://gallery.audioasylum.com/cgi/view.mpl?UserImages=21150
You saved my sanity!
Two years ego I switched from CDs to vinyl. I needed a better source to compliment my DIY speakers. When setting my first audiophile TT I found out that antiskate adjustment was not working. When I complained I was scalded by vinyl gurus and told to be happy. That really ticked me off. I tried a different arm with a different antiskate system – still no luck. I decided to build my own TT and tonearms. I build two Schroeder clones and still had a problem with antiskate. This time I could not blame the manufacturer! I did some thinking and came to a conclusion that all three designers are wrong. All 3 tonearms had antiskate designed to increase the force toward the center off LP.
I found your posts on the subject today and a link to your website. Eureka! Finally someone who shares my views! You made me very happy. Thank you!
It felt like there was a conspiracy to make me think I was nuts since I was the only one who would not accept tonearms with bad antiskate design.
I have some ideas how to fix my Schroeder clones for correct antiskate operation. I will share when ready.
Marek Stojek
http://gallery.audioasylum.com/cgi/view.mpl?UserImages=21150
Hi,
I have a old SME 3009 S2 imp.
It allows one to set up the amount of antiskate and whether it increases or decreases as the arm sweeps across the disc.
It cannot adjust by very much and if the curve of the skating force is at the asymtote then the force is substantially constant across much of the disc.
So never let it be said that the British manufacturers don't allow flexibility in their set-up/design.
I have a old SME 3009 S2 imp.
It allows one to set up the amount of antiskate and whether it increases or decreases as the arm sweeps across the disc.
It cannot adjust by very much and if the curve of the skating force is at the asymtote then the force is substantially constant across much of the disc.
So never let it be said that the British manufacturers don't allow flexibility in their set-up/design.
Dear Marek Strojek,
thank you for your news.
I am am always very glad to receive confirmations about my design.
I have some news .
I suggested the uncutted disc for antiskating adjustment.
This is very useful to test bearings friction and wiring friction.
But the best method for antiskating adjustment is to have a test disc with fixed 1 khz frequency on the two channels,and a dual trace oscilloscope is necessary.
The problem is that the only one commercially aivable test disc has a very short track for antiskating test,instead ,accordingly to my method,the test signal should be cutted continuously in all the side surfaceof the vinyl disc.
Such test disc are not longer commercially aivable,but I had this cutted for me on a PVC disc,not a laquer,this lathe cutted PVC disc is usable many times exacly as a pressed discs.
Here in Italy,in Bologna , 60 km away fom my house,there is Mr Roberto Barbolini ,see www.vinycuttingheadrepair.com .
He repairs Neumann cutting heads,and he has a complete cutting
lathe,I had cutted some vinyls from my analog tapes,and a test disc for antiskating adjstment at reasonable price, and with very high sound quality,because the Neumann cutting heads employed are completely refurbished with new flat wire coils and new diamond.
He cuts vinys for customers, it was an exciting experience to assist vinyl cutting ,I had cutted a 78 RPM disc for demonstration purpose from an old open reel.
Old tapes can not be played too much times,the only way to preserve their content is to make digital dubbing or.....
cutting a vinyl !
This method has the advantage to preserve the analog original sound without digitalizing it .
Best regards,Carlo Morsiani.
thank you for your news.
I am am always very glad to receive confirmations about my design.
I have some news .
I suggested the uncutted disc for antiskating adjustment.
This is very useful to test bearings friction and wiring friction.
But the best method for antiskating adjustment is to have a test disc with fixed 1 khz frequency on the two channels,and a dual trace oscilloscope is necessary.
The problem is that the only one commercially aivable test disc has a very short track for antiskating test,instead ,accordingly to my method,the test signal should be cutted continuously in all the side surfaceof the vinyl disc.
Such test disc are not longer commercially aivable,but I had this cutted for me on a PVC disc,not a laquer,this lathe cutted PVC disc is usable many times exacly as a pressed discs.
Here in Italy,in Bologna , 60 km away fom my house,there is Mr Roberto Barbolini ,see www.vinycuttingheadrepair.com .
He repairs Neumann cutting heads,and he has a complete cutting
lathe,I had cutted some vinyls from my analog tapes,and a test disc for antiskating adjstment at reasonable price, and with very high sound quality,because the Neumann cutting heads employed are completely refurbished with new flat wire coils and new diamond.
He cuts vinys for customers, it was an exciting experience to assist vinyl cutting ,I had cutted a 78 RPM disc for demonstration purpose from an old open reel.
Old tapes can not be played too much times,the only way to preserve their content is to make digital dubbing or.....
cutting a vinyl !
This method has the advantage to preserve the analog original sound without digitalizing it .
Best regards,Carlo Morsiani.
Hi Marek,
When building a Schroeder clone, you have to use the right diameter/stiffness thread, otherwise there will be to high a difference between the skating compensation at the beginning vs. the end of the record.
I believe I posted before that in my arms there is a 2% increase in antiskating force towards the record end, that is without taking the resistance/springyness(hope that is a real word...) of the wiring into account.
With proper dressing of the wires you can achieve a very even antiskating figure across the record. Still not perfect as there are other factors like the varying tracing error(perfect skating compensation does not follow a linear function), different vinyl formulations(with varying friction coefficients) and the influence of the modulation/groove velocity.
Summary: skating force compensation will always be a compromise, but at least the best implementations will not introduce friction or resonances.
Greetings from Colorado,
Frank Schroeder
When building a Schroeder clone, you have to use the right diameter/stiffness thread, otherwise there will be to high a difference between the skating compensation at the beginning vs. the end of the record.
I believe I posted before that in my arms there is a 2% increase in antiskating force towards the record end, that is without taking the resistance/springyness(hope that is a real word...) of the wiring into account.
With proper dressing of the wires you can achieve a very even antiskating figure across the record. Still not perfect as there are other factors like the varying tracing error(perfect skating compensation does not follow a linear function), different vinyl formulations(with varying friction coefficients) and the influence of the modulation/groove velocity.
Summary: skating force compensation will always be a compromise, but at least the best implementations will not introduce friction or resonances.
Greetings from Colorado,
Frank Schroeder
Hi Frank,
I like your design very mach that’s why I cloned it. Thanks for your intellectual contribution.
The first thing I did, I tried different thread diameter. My magnet is drilled 1/32”.
I also tried to braid the tonearm wire clockwise and counter clockwise to combine its action with the thread action but it didn’t work. I realized that with your design no tweaking is going to produce the antiskate force decreasing towards the record’s end. As you said even your best afford produced 2% increase.
On my first clone antiscate is much better then on my commercial tonearms. It is good enough for my inexpensive cartridge. On the second clone (the upside down design, which is my reference tonearm) I would like to achieve antiskate force DECREASING towards the record end. It is important to me and I am working on additional magnetic compensation system for the tonearm.
Sincerely,
Marek Stojek
I like your design very mach that’s why I cloned it. Thanks for your intellectual contribution.
The first thing I did, I tried different thread diameter. My magnet is drilled 1/32”.
I also tried to braid the tonearm wire clockwise and counter clockwise to combine its action with the thread action but it didn’t work. I realized that with your design no tweaking is going to produce the antiskate force decreasing towards the record’s end. As you said even your best afford produced 2% increase.
On my first clone antiscate is much better then on my commercial tonearms. It is good enough for my inexpensive cartridge. On the second clone (the upside down design, which is my reference tonearm) I would like to achieve antiskate force DECREASING towards the record end. It is important to me and I am working on additional magnetic compensation system for the tonearm.
Sincerely,
Marek Stojek
I have installed a simple antiskate correction on both my DIY tonearms. It works well and makes noticeable improvement to the sound.
Pictures are here:
http://gallery.audioasylum.com/cgi/view.mpl?UserImages=21150
The description is at:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89867
Merry Christmas everybody
Marek
Pictures are here:
http://gallery.audioasylum.com/cgi/view.mpl?UserImages=21150
The description is at:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89867
Merry Christmas everybody
Marek
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