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-   -   Will the correct Doug Self Wireless World RIAA please stand up? (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/73126-will-correct-doug-self-wireless-world-riaa-please-stand-up.html)

leadbelly 2nd February 2006 12:19 AM

Will the correct Doug Self Wireless World RIAA please stand up?
 
I was trying to find a "best" RIAA eq for my preamp in this thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...threadid=73110 and the Doug Self circuit from 1996 is mentioned often. In Rod Elliott's Project 25 http://sound.westhost.com/project25.htm he does show a schematic and points out that 1 cap is likely the wrong value and if you change it you do get the 3180 us constant. However I found another project http://www.mhennessy.f9.co.uk/preamp/schematics.htm (click Phono stage schematic) where the designer also claims to use the Self eq but has other components with different values. Does anyone have the original Self article or know enough about the subject to verify what is correct?

jackinnj 2nd February 2006 12:51 AM

you might want to read Nelson Pass' article on the Pearl (I believe that's the one) -- www.passdiy.com

Cloth Ears 2nd February 2006 01:22 AM

I think 'cos it's still available from http://www.softcopy.co.uk/mag/defaul...070540&count=1 (watch out, this adds it to a 'shopping basket') for 4 pounds, it might not be readily available on the net.

As it's not on his own site (http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampins/ampins.htm) you might end up having to get a copy for yourself to verify what is correct.

:goodbad:

Paul Ranson 2nd February 2006 01:06 PM

I'm prepared to be wrong on this but I think the mhennesey value
for the big resistor isa conseqence of misreading the schematic in 'Self on Audio'.

I think 5220 Ohms in parallel with 14.32n and 63500 in parallel with 50n gives the right numbers.

Paul

sreten 2nd February 2006 01:31 PM

Hi,

I have the book at home so I can check tonight.

However D.Self categorically states that the time constants interact
and you cannot get accurate EQ by using the time constants for each
section. Consequently for the proper values a simple R||C time constant
calculation should yield "incorrect" time constants.

:)/sreten.

BlackCatSound 2nd February 2006 01:32 PM

If I remember I'll check his book when I get home.

davidsrsb 2nd February 2006 03:36 PM

I have one of Doug Selfs Wireless World design articles at work and can check tomorrow.

The best thing is to use a simulator like Simetrix and simulate against the ideal mathematical model. It's quite easy to get very close to ideal.

I have seen a few discrete preamps that are off at the 3180us point because they run out of gain

rayfutrell 2nd February 2006 04:59 PM

I recall an article by Reg Williamson in Audio Amateur about 15 years ago on this subject. He had 4 different topologies for the RIAA network and the correct time constants for each topology to provide the proper RIAA break frequencies.

Finding the article may take some time.
Regards,
Ray

jcx 2nd February 2006 05:44 PM

you might want to look at jung's Op Amp Applications book

section 6 has a dozen pages on riaa circuits

http://www.analog.com/library/analog..._handbook.html

davidsrsb 3rd February 2006 01:29 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Doug Selfs Wireless World February 1979 RIAA preamp
This was a single supply bipolar transistor design.
I have modeled it here with opamps for simplicity but the results are similar. Note that the gain is low from 50Hz to 1KHz, as much as 1.6dB so the 3180 us pole is wrong.


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