Okay, so I've finally settled into my new dorm room and i'm deciding what to do with all the **** the previous guy left in my room (among other things a bag of month old chinese food 
). Anyway, he left a sony Vhs vcr that claims "hifi stereo" I've heard somewhere else that people have used these things for relatively high quality audio recordings. I would love to copy some of my friend's vinyl since I don't yet have a turntable, and was wondering if anyone could give me feedback to see if it was worth it, or possible mods to make ton the thing.
). Anyway, he left a sony Vhs vcr that claims "hifi stereo" I've heard somewhere else that people have used these things for relatively high quality audio recordings. I would love to copy some of my friend's vinyl since I don't yet have a turntable, and was wondering if anyone could give me feedback to see if it was worth it, or possible mods to make ton the thing.
With a sound card and CD burner, you can do about a million times better for recording quality and durability.
Best thing to do is to go down to a local pond or stream, tape a bunch of firecrackers to the VHS player, set it afloat, light the firecrackers, push the player out farther into the water (do that pretty quickly unless you seek martyrdom or enjoy being called "Stumpy"), then watch the fun. Taping a plastic Captain to the top adds a nice visual thrill as you watch the ship go down for the last time.
Only do this where legal. Of course.
Best thing to do is to go down to a local pond or stream, tape a bunch of firecrackers to the VHS player, set it afloat, light the firecrackers, push the player out farther into the water (do that pretty quickly unless you seek martyrdom or enjoy being called "Stumpy"), then watch the fun. Taping a plastic Captain to the top adds a nice visual thrill as you watch the ship go down for the last time.
Only do this where legal. Of course.
Experimented with this some years ago - although the frequency response can be excellent (some are/were virtually flat from 20Hz - 20KHz) they use a tremendous amount of compression to keep the noise down. Also, unless it's a professional jobbie, it'll have automatic record level; quiet passages will roar with noise & it'll kill your crescendo's. Other than that, you'll still need to record a video signal when you tape the audio or you won't have any pitch stability.
If you rip the unit to pieces, you'll find a superb motor which with a little enginuity could be used as a turntable drive motor...
If you rip the unit to pieces, you'll find a superb motor which with a little enginuity could be used as a turntable drive motor...
I made a compilation for a party on one. A 180 minute tape lasts 6 hours in long play, and there's no loss of audio quality unlike the deterioration of video in long play. Imagine the time it took to record six hours worth of tracks from vinyl and cds; but at a party you can just leave it running, no changing records (or djs), so you can concentrate on getting drunk. There's another plus - there's nothing to damage or lose once drunkenness sets in. I thought the quality was good, like fm radio. My recorder had LED vu meters to set the audio signal levels, so it didn't suffer the compression problems some would have. These were the days before computers.
I am thinking of taking apart all the electronics of a hi-fi stereo VHS and keep the mechanical construction. Then build some fine quality audio electronics for it.
One thing I consider is the Record head. Does anyone know how audio recording is done, how many tracks has the head for audio etc. Or maybe I can use the video head? Please help a bit. The tape width is enough to ensure high quality but the head has been designed for fideo so It cannot compare to the reel-to-reel decks.
Hey, maybe I could buy a reel-to-reel and ruin it's head to fit it inside the vhs, but why on earth one should do this? ..for the compact size of the vhs tape compared to reel-to-reel oe would say..)
One thing I consider is the Record head. Does anyone know how audio recording is done, how many tracks has the head for audio etc. Or maybe I can use the video head? Please help a bit. The tape width is enough to ensure high quality but the head has been designed for fideo so It cannot compare to the reel-to-reel decks.
Hey, maybe I could buy a reel-to-reel and ruin it's head to fit it inside the vhs, but why on earth one should do this? ..for the compact size of the vhs tape compared to reel-to-reel oe would say..)
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Regular VHS, HiFi or not, have their audio heads rigged alongside the video drum, thus providing a linear audio track, along with the sync signals. Rebuilding a VHS recorder for audio use is surely a futile task, in my opinion, if practically possible at all -( well - anything is possible if you throw enough money at it.....)
Sony, however, had a stationary Video8 machine, which was true audio PCM... don't remember the type number tho'....
Sony, however, had a stationary Video8 machine, which was true audio PCM... don't remember the type number tho'....
Audio on VHS
Actually, there were a couple of digital audio recorders on VHS cassette, based on VHS video transport. Technics and Hitachi for sure and maybe some other manufacturers were producing them. Those were professional quality machines, really expensive back than. I've recently bought one, and waiting it to arrive, it is about 20 kilogram. Unfortunately, it seems that nobody bothered with the VHS analogue recording-reproducing device... Could be a real good performer...
Actually, there were a couple of digital audio recorders on VHS cassette, based on VHS video transport. Technics and Hitachi for sure and maybe some other manufacturers were producing them. Those were professional quality machines, really expensive back than. I've recently bought one, and waiting it to arrive, it is about 20 kilogram. Unfortunately, it seems that nobody bothered with the VHS analogue recording-reproducing device... Could be a real good performer...
Attachments
I still have some that are 30 years old, the quality is about AM radio. In any case there was a separate HiFi FM modulated signal for the sound as well as(for compatibility) the bad little cassette heads on the edge. One channel frequently missing. Imagine an audio cassette crawling along at that speed.
The HiFi track was a little better I would say. I also think there is a problem with the rotary heads leaving the tape between fields that was fudged with the HiFi system. By todays standards this was a horrible kluge.
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With VHS recorders running at $5 each, and reel to reel tape running at $20 each or $5 for "The King & I", They are tempting boxes. I have never seen a US NTSC unit with VU meters and audio level setting. I would have paid $10 for it if I had. The supply of VHS tape at $1 is infinite, now, Tempting to pitch the whole rotary head mechanism and put something in that has better signal to noise than cassette (which I never bought.)
There is CD, but they have never been made anywhere but Malaysia & China, that I have seen. At least VHS decks were made in Korea some, and the tapes made in Mexico.
If this import surge keeps on, I may have to carve consumer electronics out of walnut wood, since that is the only thing the US makes anymore. Oh, we have sand.
There is CD, but they have never been made anywhere but Malaysia & China, that I have seen. At least VHS decks were made in Korea some, and the tapes made in Mexico.
If this import surge keeps on, I may have to carve consumer electronics out of walnut wood, since that is the only thing the US makes anymore. Oh, we have sand.
Most people didn't realize that their VHS-Hi Fi was actually the best recorder in their house and likely the neighborhood. I've actually used mine to archive a rather lengthy Oldies collection in the past. First requirement though is a solid video source, because the head motor gets phase locked to the video sync signal. But the video source can come from a camera or a vid gen.
Doc
Doc
Okay, so I've finally settled into my new dorm room and i'm deciding what to do with all the **** the previous guy left in my room (among other things a bag of month old chinese food
Did it not occur to you that the Chinese food and VHS had the same value to him?
The HiFi tracks are typically better than audio cassette and there are parameters that are better than open reel decks but it's a designed failure mode device. The tape gas a finite number of passes before it gets replaced. The head wheel has a relatively short life and is expensive to replace.
You obviously have a computer. Doesn't it have DVD / CD record capability? Blank CDs are close to free and play almost everywhere. Why fiddle with VCRs?
G²
Hes I know computers, I know digital stuf. I would really like to discover the capabilities of the hi-fi vhs (and s-vhs which uses the same analogue fm modulated audio way), as an analogue medium of great sound quality. I do not know of any other analogue recording medium other than ,magnetic tape, vinyl and vcd. But the magnetic tape is the only such medium where you can actually record at home.
If hi-fi vhs is proved better than ordinary tapes in terms of fidelity, why should one go for the tapes? Not to mention the huge ost of good tape recorders compared to a hi-fi vhs today.
I hav bought this model to test. Sony SVO-1630 4 Head HiFi Stereo Professional VHS VCR | eBay and here is the manual http://www.manualbookdownload.com/Sony-SVO-1630-P115469.aspx.
I really have no idea if it is pure analogue or if it performs some digital processing to the sound before the fm modulation, would anyone know?
If hi-fi vhs is proved better than ordinary tapes in terms of fidelity, why should one go for the tapes? Not to mention the huge ost of good tape recorders compared to a hi-fi vhs today.
I hav bought this model to test. Sony SVO-1630 4 Head HiFi Stereo Professional VHS VCR | eBay and here is the manual http://www.manualbookdownload.com/Sony-SVO-1630-P115469.aspx.
I really have no idea if it is pure analogue or if it performs some digital processing to the sound before the fm modulation, would anyone know?
VHS HiFi is a poor long term medium.
Tapes deteriorate and get damaged. Many machines had very poor head life and were very fussy with regard to the HiFi soundtrack which is recorded "under" the video signal on the tape. Tape path alignment was critical and prone to wear and drift.
It's an analogue medium and although it was clever at the time it's of little more than curiosity value now. Listened to critically the failings were apparent. You could often "hear" low level switching artifacts from the head drum switching on many machines.
There were some machines (Sony Beta) that could be used with a PCM adapter but these are a totally different concept... and still these days a poor long term choice.
Tapes deteriorate and get damaged. Many machines had very poor head life and were very fussy with regard to the HiFi soundtrack which is recorded "under" the video signal on the tape. Tape path alignment was critical and prone to wear and drift.
It's an analogue medium and although it was clever at the time it's of little more than curiosity value now. Listened to critically the failings were apparent. You could often "hear" low level switching artifacts from the head drum switching on many machines.
There were some machines (Sony Beta) that could be used with a PCM adapter but these are a totally different concept... and still these days a poor long term choice.
I record CD's at home from a pair of mics on occasion using the PC to capture using Adobe Audition and then burn a CD.
There are some weird anomalies from AFM tracks on rotary heads. Tape tension variations can cause some 60 Hz (NTSC rate or 50 Hz for PAL / SECAM) crackling and mis-tracking similar but more intense. The un-processed S/N on AFM isn't quite up to snuff so there may be some analog noise processing. By and large it's pretty good but someone mentioned a PCM processor that makes audio into digital as analog video which is considerably better. I have both and use neither as the PC is less trouble and has for all practical purposes unlimited recording time. Convert the .WAV to FLAC and save 30-50% space. Even if I recorded onto the PCM via tape route I'd still copy it into the PC to separate the tracks and make the CD. Why bother with the tape?
G²
I personally enjoy the mini disc for direct recordings, but this is not the case. What I mean is I try so figure out how analogue recordings would perform on this medium compared to reel2reel and tapes. I believe it should perform much better than ordinary tapes, but would that beat the reel2reel? The referenced characteristics denote so, much greater S/N, more dynamic range and roughly the same frequency responce.
The linear tracks on VHS and Beta were really quite bad. VHS ran at 15/16th ips and Beta even slower so indeed AM radio quality.
The HiFi tracks were really something else.
Independent FM carriers for each channel meant 10Hz to 26KHz flat and extending easily beyond 30K. No digital, no quantization noise no brick walls no hash just really great sound that is still difficult to beat today.
But to get the best and avoid some of the mentioned niggles, you needed a machine which was designed to run audio only. This would swith off the video track so that the audio track was much stronger. from memory the Sony SLHF100 would do this (correct me if I got the wrong model) and the Ferguson FV13H (a JVC clone) would certainly do this. When used this way it had its' own sync gen operating and no external video required. The tape would run at half speed so 6 hours super quality recording from a cheap 3 hour tape.
I still use my FV13H from 20 odd years ago and still works a treat.
The only fly in the ointment was compatability from one machine to another, they had to be set up correctly with careful attention to back tension.
Henry
The HiFi tracks were really something else.
Independent FM carriers for each channel meant 10Hz to 26KHz flat and extending easily beyond 30K. No digital, no quantization noise no brick walls no hash just really great sound that is still difficult to beat today.
But to get the best and avoid some of the mentioned niggles, you needed a machine which was designed to run audio only. This would swith off the video track so that the audio track was much stronger. from memory the Sony SLHF100 would do this (correct me if I got the wrong model) and the Ferguson FV13H (a JVC clone) would certainly do this. When used this way it had its' own sync gen operating and no external video required. The tape would run at half speed so 6 hours super quality recording from a cheap 3 hour tape.
I still use my FV13H from 20 odd years ago and still works a treat.
The only fly in the ointment was compatability from one machine to another, they had to be set up correctly with careful attention to back tension.
Henry
In vhs hi-fi which do not have this audio-only capability, you can make a little external video generator (generating a white screen for example) and connect it to the video in when you record audio. The recorder must have an adjustable audio record level control to allow for good audio recording then. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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