I have recently acquired two unbuilt Kit turntables. They are still in their original boxes. They were made by a company called Input Design Ltd. I guess that they are 20 - 25 years old. A list of instructions and build components is included with each kit. The only thing that needs to be outsourced is a suitable tonearm. I have been told that they are very similar to a Linn Sondek in construction.
I have found that Input Design Turntables were made in Shortmead Street, Biggleswade. A few years ago, a company called Manticore Audio Visual was operating in the same street. It was run by Doug Hewett and specialised in turntables/tonearms etc. There may be a connection. Did Doug Hewett own Input Design Ltd ?
Anyone know anything of Doug Hewett or Manticore Audio Visual ? I know that the company is no longer is existence, because I've tried the phone number I found on the web.
I intend to build one of the kits with a Rega RB250 tonearm which I have just purchased. Is it worth paying for it to be modified or is it just an 'over - hyped' modification ?
Any information (especially on Input Design Ltd) gratefully received.
Regards,
Andy
I have found that Input Design Turntables were made in Shortmead Street, Biggleswade. A few years ago, a company called Manticore Audio Visual was operating in the same street. It was run by Doug Hewett and specialised in turntables/tonearms etc. There may be a connection. Did Doug Hewett own Input Design Ltd ?
Anyone know anything of Doug Hewett or Manticore Audio Visual ? I know that the company is no longer is existence, because I've tried the phone number I found on the web.
I intend to build one of the kits with a Rega RB250 tonearm which I have just purchased. Is it worth paying for it to be modified or is it just an 'over - hyped' modification ?
Any information (especially on Input Design Ltd) gratefully received.
Regards,
Andy
Hi,
I remember the Input Design kit turntable and I'm pretty sure
the bits originated from Manticore Audio - though not the lid
which is taking budgeting too far IMO.
The RB250 is fantastic value, from what I remember in stock form
it should match the ID kit well and IMO the mods on the RB250
in this context would not be particularly cost effective.
Spend the arm modding money on a Denon DL110 cartridge.
/sreten.
I remember the Input Design kit turntable and I'm pretty sure
the bits originated from Manticore Audio - though not the lid
which is taking budgeting too far IMO.
The RB250 is fantastic value, from what I remember in stock form
it should match the ID kit well and IMO the mods on the RB250
in this context would not be particularly cost effective.
Spend the arm modding money on a Denon DL110 cartridge.
/sreten.Yep, Input Design was Doug Hewitts company before Manticore (solely, or in partnership with others I've no idea). The Input Design Kitdek (Kitdec/Kitdeck?) can be considered a forerunner of the Mantra turntable. Comtemporary reviews, although not terrible, were rather luke-warm IIRC. Until fairly recently- within the last few years- I thought they were still trading in some form, but presumably they have now gone. Some (probably many!) years ago I contacted Manticore about spare Phillips/ Airpax synchronus motors, which they were unable to supply. I'd already discovered that boxes of fifty were available direct from a UK distributor, which was a significantly smaller minimum order than they were aware of at the time. They (presumably Doug) thanked me for the tip, so I may've contributed to spares being available from them for longer than otherwise! Try emailing Mike Harris at Moth Marketing/ HFN Accessory Club/ British Hi-Fi, he might know of Manticores final fate. Not that Mike had any connection with Input or Manticore that I'm aware of, but he's very knowledgable about the UK scene and also based in Bedfordshire.
Actually, while you're at it have a word with him about the Michell counterweight and the Incognito rewire service he does for the Regas- and his own Moth branded OEM Rega arms. I've modded a Rega for myself and one for a friends friend. Sounds better to me...
Actually, while you're at it have a word with him about the Michell counterweight and the Incognito rewire service he does for the Regas- and his own Moth branded OEM Rega arms. I've modded a Rega for myself and one for a friends friend. Sounds better to me...
Input Design Turntables (2)
Many thanks for all the information !!!
I've been trying to find out about Input Design Ltd for quite a while !
If I could test your patience a little further . . . . .
Is it actually worthwhile bothering to build one of these decks or is the sound likely to be poor ? Is it likely to be better than a 'standard' mass produced Japanese deck ?
I currently own a Pioneer PL12D & a Fisher MT-6360 turntable. I'm guessing that the Fisher is about 25 years old. The user manual states that it is a 'Full Automatic Operation, Linear Motor & Infrared Remote Control'. The Infared remote works fine. Am I best sticking with one of these decks or should I build one of the Input Design decks ?
Or should I junk the lot and get something else. Post Christmas, I haven't got large amounts of spare dosh.
Since I have two unbuilt Input Design Kitdecks, are they likely to be saleable on Ebay ? I will have to get rid of at least one of them. I must say, that a plus point is that my better half likes the appearance of the Input Design Kit - usually; it is a case of sneaking something in whilst she's out shopping !
Once again, 'Thank You'
Regards,
Andy
Many thanks for all the information !!!
I've been trying to find out about Input Design Ltd for quite a while !
If I could test your patience a little further . . . . .
Is it actually worthwhile bothering to build one of these decks or is the sound likely to be poor ? Is it likely to be better than a 'standard' mass produced Japanese deck ?
I currently own a Pioneer PL12D & a Fisher MT-6360 turntable. I'm guessing that the Fisher is about 25 years old. The user manual states that it is a 'Full Automatic Operation, Linear Motor & Infrared Remote Control'. The Infared remote works fine. Am I best sticking with one of these decks or should I build one of the Input Design decks ?
Or should I junk the lot and get something else. Post Christmas, I haven't got large amounts of spare dosh.
Since I have two unbuilt Input Design Kitdecks, are they likely to be saleable on Ebay ? I will have to get rid of at least one of them. I must say, that a plus point is that my better half likes the appearance of the Input Design Kit - usually; it is a case of sneaking something in whilst she's out shopping !
Once again, 'Thank You'
Regards,
Andy
Re: Input Design Turntables (2)
Yes, no and absolutely.
No and yes.
No.
I'd regard the kits as very sellable.
Some kits were the chassis only and some kits included a lid,
hinges, feet etc so you only needed to build the plinth.
So sell one kit, and buy a Moth RB250 and Denon DL110 cartridge.
/sreten.
pubrunner2000 said:
Yes, no and absolutely.
pubrunner2000 said:
No and yes.
pubrunner2000 said:
No.
I'd regard the kits as very sellable.
Some kits were the chassis only and some kits included a lid,
hinges, feet etc so you only needed to build the plinth.
So sell one kit, and buy a Moth RB250 and Denon DL110 cartridge.
/sreten.The various 'go faster' bits do cost money, naturally. OTOH there isn't really another arm on the market that sounds better than a modded Rega- if you're using medium compliance cartridges that is. Yes, all the useful mods for the Rega would cost more than the base arm, but that's just because the arm is amazingly cheap for what it is! If money's tight stick with the standard arm, but the great thing about Regas is that you can improve them as finances and inclination progress. While I didn't sat down with a notebook after listening to each mod, I think the Michell Technoweight would be the first thing I'd treat myself to.
Although the Kitdeck didn't set the world alight, I'd agree that it should be better sounding than your current decks by an obvious margin. The second deck should sell on ebay easily enough; I'd expect it to sell for about £50- 100 or so. It's unlikely to go for much more since there's always lots of moderately priced Thorens decks and a few Systemdek IIXs too. Still, that'll pay for a big chunk of your Rega- maybe all of it if you buy second hand yourself.
The Denon DL110 is a good cartridge for the money, but not the only one. The Goldring 1000 series is also very good, even the 'cheap' one, the 1006. Styli can be upgraded through the range. I use a 1042 in preference to the DL110 I also have. The Grado range is worth checking out too.
Good luck, and have fun!
Although the Kitdeck didn't set the world alight, I'd agree that it should be better sounding than your current decks by an obvious margin. The second deck should sell on ebay easily enough; I'd expect it to sell for about £50- 100 or so. It's unlikely to go for much more since there's always lots of moderately priced Thorens decks and a few Systemdek IIXs too. Still, that'll pay for a big chunk of your Rega- maybe all of it if you buy second hand yourself.
The Denon DL110 is a good cartridge for the money, but not the only one. The Goldring 1000 series is also very good, even the 'cheap' one, the 1006. Styli can be upgraded through the range. I use a 1042 in preference to the DL110 I also have. The Grado range is worth checking out too.
Good luck, and have fun!
If I didn't have some basis on which to scale the review of the Kitdeck I wouldn't have bothered to mention it...
The Kitdeck, as things turned out, was essentially a prototype for the Mantra, which is a turntable I'm fairly familiar with- a friend of mine owned one for several years. At the time I'd either owned or had friends who owned most of the better mid-priced decks of the day, including the Rega 3, the Heybrook TT2, the Systemdek IIX (which my brother purchased in the early eighties and still uses), and various Thorens decks. So I've got plenty of context in terms of the relative merits of the decks (as I heard them) compared to contemporary reviews. No salt required! The review was perfectly consistant with the way you'd expect an early, slightly QC-challeged, version of the Mantra to sound.
I'm sure with the Rega arm on board it'll sound fine, although if pressed on how I'd spend my own money, I'd pick the Systemdek IIX- still my favourite near-budget turntable.
The Kitdeck, as things turned out, was essentially a prototype for the Mantra, which is a turntable I'm fairly familiar with- a friend of mine owned one for several years. At the time I'd either owned or had friends who owned most of the better mid-priced decks of the day, including the Rega 3, the Heybrook TT2, the Systemdek IIX (which my brother purchased in the early eighties and still uses), and various Thorens decks. So I've got plenty of context in terms of the relative merits of the decks (as I heard them) compared to contemporary reviews. No salt required! The review was perfectly consistant with the way you'd expect an early, slightly QC-challeged, version of the Mantra to sound.
I'm sure with the Rega arm on board it'll sound fine, although if pressed on how I'd spend my own money, I'd pick the Systemdek IIX- still my favourite near-budget turntable.
Hi,
I'll just add I have a modified Systemdek IIX and a near standard RB250 arm.
(fitted with an ortofon MC15 Super II into audiolab MC input)
There is a lot of fettling than can be done to the kitdeck to improve the sound
and these are more fundamental changes than simply upgrading the arm.
So I'd suggest a thorough investigation of suggested mods to the IIX (especially mine),
and similar other decks - most don't cost too much - before upgrading the RB250 arm.
/sreten.
I'll just add I have a modified Systemdek IIX and a near standard RB250 arm.
(fitted with an ortofon MC15 Super II into audiolab MC input)
There is a lot of fettling than can be done to the kitdeck to improve the sound
and these are more fundamental changes than simply upgrading the arm.
So I'd suggest a thorough investigation of suggested mods to the IIX (especially mine),
and similar other decks - most don't cost too much - before upgrading the RB250 arm.
/sreten.First; I'd like to say a big "Thank You" to those who have provided such comprehensive information regarding the Input Design Kitdeck. I have found it very interesting and informative reading !
I realise that the kitdeck isn't the highest HiFi, but I do have two complete kits (including turntable covers) and I do have to do SOMETHING with them.
I have a Rega RB250 and a Goldring 1012GX cartridge. I'm interested in getting either Origin Live or Moth (Which ?) to make modifications to the arm. However, I'd be very interested in knowing what 'fettling can be done to the kitdeck to improve the sound - more fundamental changes than simply upgrading the arm'.
Where may I find out about such improvements and can anyone recommend a company that can carry them out for me ? Furthermore, can anyone recommend a company that could fit my tonearm for me ? (I'm based in Shropshire) I'm not at all practically minded - boiling water in a kettle is about my limit !
Thank you once again,
Regards,
Andy
I realise that the kitdeck isn't the highest HiFi, but I do have two complete kits (including turntable covers) and I do have to do SOMETHING with them.
I have a Rega RB250 and a Goldring 1012GX cartridge. I'm interested in getting either Origin Live or Moth (Which ?) to make modifications to the arm. However, I'd be very interested in knowing what 'fettling can be done to the kitdeck to improve the sound - more fundamental changes than simply upgrading the arm'.
Where may I find out about such improvements and can anyone recommend a company that can carry them out for me ? Furthermore, can anyone recommend a company that could fit my tonearm for me ? (I'm based in Shropshire) I'm not at all practically minded - boiling water in a kettle is about my limit !
Thank you once again,
Regards,
Andy
Hmmm......
If you can't fit the arm then fettling the kit is going to be difficult.
You need to find an enthusiast near you to offer their help.
As I've said before the RB250 (and the 1012GX) will work perfectly
well without modification - if you must, add the Mitchell counterweight.
Also note the kitdeck should be capable of a genuine high standard.
There is loads of info to be found on modifying turntables,
to fettle one IMO without wasting a lot of time and effort
requires a good feel for what is affecting the sound.
Without hands on experience or a set of decent photos
of the kitdeck I can't really say which bits need fettling.
But for example :
Some simple tips for the IIX :
1) oil the motor, few drops where the spindle enters the housing,
top and bottom. Check the motor angle is correct, the belt should
be running in the centre of the pulley.
2) check arm leading dressing is free, I find a single twist before
the clamp works well, often moving the clamp to the back surface
helps.
The angle of the lead should be ~ tangential to a circle centred on the main bearing.
(Purpose here is to damp any rotational modes of the subchassis whilst free in other planes)
3) Clean out and re-oil the main bearing.
4) Remove main bearing from subchassis and then replace but
using Araldite to lock it in place.
5) the MDF armboard should fit directly to the subchassis, no
spacers should be used. Use PVA wood glue to semi-permanently
bond the armboard to the subchassis.
6) The deck proper needs to be level to get a really good bounce
from a correctly adjusted suspension, adjust the suspension with
a record in place. Try to get the clearance below the top-plate
and above the motor nearly equal for a clean bounce.
/sreten.
If you can't fit the arm then fettling the kit is going to be difficult.
You need to find an enthusiast near you to offer their help.
As I've said before the RB250 (and the 1012GX) will work perfectly
well without modification - if you must, add the Mitchell counterweight.
Also note the kitdeck should be capable of a genuine high standard.
There is loads of info to be found on modifying turntables,
to fettle one IMO without wasting a lot of time and effort
requires a good feel for what is affecting the sound.
Without hands on experience or a set of decent photos
of the kitdeck I can't really say which bits need fettling.
But for example :
Some simple tips for the IIX :
1) oil the motor, few drops where the spindle enters the housing,
top and bottom. Check the motor angle is correct, the belt should
be running in the centre of the pulley.
2) check arm leading dressing is free, I find a single twist before
the clamp works well, often moving the clamp to the back surface
helps.
The angle of the lead should be ~ tangential to a circle centred on the main bearing.
(Purpose here is to damp any rotational modes of the subchassis whilst free in other planes)
3) Clean out and re-oil the main bearing.
4) Remove main bearing from subchassis and then replace but
using Araldite to lock it in place.
5) the MDF armboard should fit directly to the subchassis, no
spacers should be used. Use PVA wood glue to semi-permanently
bond the armboard to the subchassis.
6) The deck proper needs to be level to get a really good bounce
from a correctly adjusted suspension, adjust the suspension with
a record in place. Try to get the clearance below the top-plate
and above the motor nearly equal for a clean bounce.
/sreten.I bought a Kit Deck about 25 years ago because it had e very good write up in the Hi Fi magazines. I fitted an S.M.E. 2 arm to it without any modification, but I don't know if these arms are still available.I am not using it at present because I need a new belt and I broke the cover. In my opinion the sound I get playing my vinyl records is a good bit better than from a CD. It seems to me much clearer and the sterio effect is better.
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