Input Design Turntables

pubrunner2000 · 4th January 2006, 01:18 PM

I have recently acquired two unbuilt Kit turntables. They are still in their original boxes. They were made by a company called Input Design Ltd. I guess that they are 20 - 25 years old. A list of instructions and build components is included with each kit. The only thing that needs to be outsourced is a suitable tonearm. I have been told that they are very similar to a Linn Sondek in construction.

I have found that Input Design Turntables were made in Shortmead Street, Biggleswade. A few years ago, a company called Manticore Audio Visual was operating in the same street. It was run by Doug Hewett and specialised in turntables/tonearms etc. There may be a connection. Did Doug Hewett own Input Design Ltd ?

Anyone know anything of Doug Hewett or Manticore Audio Visual ? I know that the company is no longer is existence, because I've tried the phone number I found on the web.

I intend to build one of the kits with a Rega RB250 tonearm which I have just purchased. Is it worth paying for it to be modified or is it just an 'over - hyped' modification ?

Any information (especially on Input Design Ltd) gratefully received.

Regards,

Andy

sreten · 4th January 2006, 03:55 PM

Hi,

I remember the Input Design kit turntable and I'm pretty sure
the bits originated from Manticore Audio - though not the lid
which is taking budgeting too far IMO.

The RB250 is fantastic value, from what I remember in stock form
it should match the ID kit well and IMO the mods on the RB250
in this context would not be particularly cost effective.

Spend the arm modding money on a Denon DL110 cartridge.

/sreten.

Toaster · 4th January 2006, 04:07 PM

Yep, Input Design was Doug Hewitts company before Manticore (solely, or in partnership with others I've no idea). The Input Design Kitdek (Kitdec/Kitdeck?) can be considered a forerunner of the Mantra turntable. Comtemporary reviews, although not terrible, were rather luke-warm IIRC. Until fairly recently- within the last few years- I thought they were still trading in some form, but presumably they have now gone. Some (probably many!) years ago I contacted Manticore about spare Phillips/ Airpax synchronus motors, which they were unable to supply. I'd already discovered that boxes of fifty were available direct from a UK distributor, which was a significantly smaller minimum order than they were aware of at the time. They (presumably Doug) thanked me for the tip, so I may've contributed to spares being available from them for longer than otherwise! Try emailing Mike Harris at Moth Marketing/ HFN Accessory Club/ British Hi-Fi, he might know of Manticores final fate. Not that Mike had any connection with Input or Manticore that I'm aware of, but he's very knowledgable about the UK scene and also based in Bedfordshire.
Actually, while you're at it have a word with him about the Michell counterweight and the Incognito rewire service he does for the Regas- and his own Moth branded OEM Rega arms. I've modded a Rega for myself and one for a friends friend. Sounds better to me...

sreten · 4th January 2006, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toaster
Sounds better to me...

Hi,

it does sound better but the mods cost more than the arm.

/sreten.

pubrunner2000 · 4th January 2006, 07:18 PM

Many thanks for all the information !!!

I've been trying to find out about Input Design Ltd for quite a while !

If I could test your patience a little further . . . . .

Is it actually worthwhile bothering to build one of these decks or is the sound likely to be poor ? Is it likely to be better than a 'standard' mass produced Japanese deck ?

I currently own a Pioneer PL12D & a Fisher MT-6360 turntable. I'm guessing that the Fisher is about 25 years old. The user manual states that it is a 'Full Automatic Operation, Linear Motor & Infrared Remote Control'. The Infared remote works fine. Am I best sticking with one of these decks or should I build one of the Input Design decks ?

Or should I junk the lot and get something else. Post Christmas, I haven't got large amounts of spare dosh.

Since I have two unbuilt Input Design Kitdecks, are they likely to be saleable on Ebay ? I will have to get rid of at least one of them. I must say, that a plus point is that my better half likes the appearance of the Input Design Kit - usually; it is a case of sneaking something in whilst she's out shopping !

Once again, 'Thank You'

Regards,

Andy

sreten · 5th January 2006, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pubrunner2000

Is it actually worthwhile bothering to build one of these decks or is the sound likely to be poor ? Is it likely to be better than a 'standard' mass produced Japanese deck ?
Andy

Yes, no and absolutely.

Quote:

Originally posted by pubrunner2000

I currently own a Pioneer PL12D & a Fisher MT-6360 turntable. I'm guessing that the Fisher is about 25 years old. The user manual states that it is a 'Full Automatic Operation, Linear Motor & Infrared Remote Control'. The Infared remote works fine. Am I best sticking with one of these decks or should I build one of the Input Design decks ?
Andy

No and yes.

Quote:

Originally posted by pubrunner2000

Or should I junk the lot and get something else. Post Christmas, I haven't got large amounts of spare dosh.

Since I have two unbuilt Input Design Kitdecks, are they likely to be saleable on Ebay ? I will have to get rid of at least one of them. I must say, that a plus point is that my better half likes the appearance of the Input Design Kit - usually; it is a case of sneaking something in whilst she's out shopping !
Andy

No.

I'd regard the kits as very sellable.

Some kits were the chassis only and some kits included a lid,
hinges, feet etc so you only needed to build the plinth.

So sell one kit, and buy a Moth RB250 and Denon DL110 cartridge.

/sreten.

Toaster · 5th January 2006, 09:32 AM

The various 'go faster' bits do cost money, naturally. OTOH there isn't really another arm on the market that sounds better than a modded Rega- if you're using medium compliance cartridges that is. Yes, all the useful mods for the Rega would cost more than the base arm, but that's just because the arm is amazingly cheap for what it is! If money's tight stick with the standard arm, but the great thing about Regas is that you can improve them as finances and inclination progress. While I didn't sat down with a notebook after listening to each mod, I think the Michell Technoweight would be the first thing I'd treat myself to.
Although the Kitdeck didn't set the world alight, I'd agree that it should be better sounding than your current decks by an obvious margin. The second deck should sell on ebay easily enough; I'd expect it to sell for about £50- 100 or so. It's unlikely to go for much more since there's always lots of moderately priced Thorens decks and a few Systemdek IIXs too. Still, that'll pay for a big chunk of your Rega- maybe all of it if you buy second hand yourself.
The Denon DL110 is a good cartridge for the money, but not the only one. The Goldring 1000 series is also very good, even the 'cheap' one, the 1006. Styli can be upgraded through the range. I use a 1042 in preference to the DL110 I also have. The Grado range is worth checking out too.
Good luck, and have fun!

davidsrsb · 5th January 2006, 01:59 PM

25 years ago we were still in the "only Linn is good" phase so take old reviews with a pinch of salt

Toaster · 5th January 2006, 08:49 PM

If I didn't have some basis on which to scale the review of the Kitdeck I wouldn't have bothered to mention it...

The Kitdeck, as things turned out, was essentially a prototype for the Mantra, which is a turntable I'm fairly familiar with- a friend of mine owned one for several years. At the time I'd either owned or had friends who owned most of the better mid-priced decks of the day, including the Rega 3, the Heybrook TT2, the Systemdek IIX (which my brother purchased in the early eighties and still uses), and various Thorens decks. So I've got plenty of context in terms of the relative merits of the decks (as I heard them) compared to contemporary reviews. No salt required! The review was perfectly consistant with the way you'd expect an early, slightly QC-challeged, version of the Mantra to sound.
I'm sure with the Rega arm on board it'll sound fine, although if pressed on how I'd spend my own money, I'd pick the Systemdek IIX- still my favourite near-budget turntable.

sreten · 6th January 2006, 08:49 AM

Hi,

I'll just add I have a modified Systemdek IIX and a near standard RB250 arm.
(fitted with an ortofon MC15 Super II into audiolab MC input)

There is a lot of fettling than can be done to the kitdeck to improve the sound
and these are more fundamental changes than simply upgrading the arm.

So I'd suggest a thorough investigation of suggested mods to the IIX (especially mine),
and similar other decks - most don't cost too much - before upgrading the RB250 arm.

/sreten.

4th January 2006, 01:18 PM	#1
pubrunner2000 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Shropshire	Input Design Turntables I have recently acquired two unbuilt Kit turntables. They are still in their original boxes. They were made by a company called Input Design Ltd. I guess that they are 20 - 25 years old. A list of instructions and build components is included with each kit. The only thing that needs to be outsourced is a suitable tonearm. I have been told that they are very similar to a Linn Sondek in construction. I have found that Input Design Turntables were made in Shortmead Street, Biggleswade. A few years ago, a company called Manticore Audio Visual was operating in the same street. It was run by Doug Hewett and specialised in turntables/tonearms etc. There may be a connection. Did Doug Hewett own Input Design Ltd ? Anyone know anything of Doug Hewett or Manticore Audio Visual ? I know that the company is no longer is existence, because I've tried the phone number I found on the web. I intend to build one of the kits with a Rega RB250 tonearm which I have just purchased. Is it worth paying for it to be modified or is it just an 'over - hyped' modification ? Any information (especially on Input Design Ltd) gratefully received. Regards, Andy

4th January 2006, 07:18 PM	#5
pubrunner2000 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Shropshire	Input Design Turntables (2) Many thanks for all the information !!! I've been trying to find out about Input Design Ltd for quite a while ! If I could test your patience a little further . . . . . Is it actually worthwhile bothering to build one of these decks or is the sound likely to be poor ? Is it likely to be better than a 'standard' mass produced Japanese deck ? I currently own a Pioneer PL12D & a Fisher MT-6360 turntable. I'm guessing that the Fisher is about 25 years old. The user manual states that it is a 'Full Automatic Operation, Linear Motor & Infrared Remote Control'. The Infared remote works fine. Am I best sticking with one of these decks or should I build one of the Input Design decks ? Or should I junk the lot and get something else. Post Christmas, I haven't got large amounts of spare dosh. Since I have two unbuilt Input Design Kitdecks, are they likely to be saleable on Ebay ? I will have to get rid of at least one of them. I must say, that a plus point is that my better half likes the appearance of the Input Design Kit - usually; it is a case of sneaking something in whilst she's out shopping ! Once again, 'Thank You' Regards, Andy

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4th January 2006, 03:55 PM	#2
sreten diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brighton UK	Hi, I remember the Input Design kit turntable and I'm pretty sure the bits originated from Manticore Audio - though not the lid which is taking budgeting too far IMO. The RB250 is fantastic value, from what I remember in stock form it should match the ID kit well and IMO the mods on the RB250 in this context would not be particularly cost effective. Spend the arm modding money on a Denon DL110 cartridge. /sreten.

4th January 2006, 04:07 PM	#3
Toaster diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South East England	Yep, Input Design was Doug Hewitts company before Manticore (solely, or in partnership with others I've no idea). The Input Design Kitdek (Kitdec/Kitdeck?) can be considered a forerunner of the Mantra turntable. Comtemporary reviews, although not terrible, were rather luke-warm IIRC. Until fairly recently- within the last few years- I thought they were still trading in some form, but presumably they have now gone. Some (probably many!) years ago I contacted Manticore about spare Phillips/ Airpax synchronus motors, which they were unable to supply. I'd already discovered that boxes of fifty were available direct from a UK distributor, which was a significantly smaller minimum order than they were aware of at the time. They (presumably Doug) thanked me for the tip, so I may've contributed to spares being available from them for longer than otherwise! Try emailing Mike Harris at Moth Marketing/ HFN Accessory Club/ British Hi-Fi, he might know of Manticores final fate. Not that Mike had any connection with Input or Manticore that I'm aware of, but he's very knowledgable about the UK scene and also based in Bedfordshire. Actually, while you're at it have a word with him about the Michell counterweight and the Incognito rewire service he does for the Regas- and his own Moth branded OEM Rega arms. I've modded a Rega for myself and one for a friends friend. Sounds better to me...

5th January 2006, 09:32 AM	#7
Toaster diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South East England	The various 'go faster' bits do cost money, naturally. OTOH there isn't really another arm on the market that sounds better than a modded Rega- if you're using medium compliance cartridges that is. Yes, all the useful mods for the Rega would cost more than the base arm, but that's just because the arm is amazingly cheap for what it is! If money's tight stick with the standard arm, but the great thing about Regas is that you can improve them as finances and inclination progress. While I didn't sat down with a notebook after listening to each mod, I think the Michell Technoweight would be the first thing I'd treat myself to. Although the Kitdeck didn't set the world alight, I'd agree that it should be better sounding than your current decks by an obvious margin. The second deck should sell on ebay easily enough; I'd expect it to sell for about £50- 100 or so. It's unlikely to go for much more since there's always lots of moderately priced Thorens decks and a few Systemdek IIXs too. Still, that'll pay for a big chunk of your Rega- maybe all of it if you buy second hand yourself. The Denon DL110 is a good cartridge for the money, but not the only one. The Goldring 1000 series is also very good, even the 'cheap' one, the 1006. Styli can be upgraded through the range. I use a 1042 in preference to the DL110 I also have. The Grado range is worth checking out too. Good luck, and have fun!

5th January 2006, 01:59 PM	#8
davidsrsb diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kuala Lumpur	25 years ago we were still in the "only Linn is good" phase so take old reviews with a pinch of salt

5th January 2006, 08:49 PM	#9
Toaster diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South East England	If I didn't have some basis on which to scale the review of the Kitdeck I wouldn't have bothered to mention it... The Kitdeck, as things turned out, was essentially a prototype for the Mantra, which is a turntable I'm fairly familiar with- a friend of mine owned one for several years. At the time I'd either owned or had friends who owned most of the better mid-priced decks of the day, including the Rega 3, the Heybrook TT2, the Systemdek IIX (which my brother purchased in the early eighties and still uses), and various Thorens decks. So I've got plenty of context in terms of the relative merits of the decks (as I heard them) compared to contemporary reviews. No salt required! The review was perfectly consistant with the way you'd expect an early, slightly QC-challeged, version of the Mantra to sound. I'm sure with the Rega arm on board it'll sound fine, although if pressed on how I'd spend my own money, I'd pick the Systemdek IIX- still my favourite near-budget turntable.

6th January 2006, 08:49 AM	#10
sreten diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brighton UK	Hi, I'll just add I have a modified Systemdek IIX and a near standard RB250 arm. (fitted with an ortofon MC15 Super II into audiolab MC input) There is a lot of fettling than can be done to the kitdeck to improve the sound and these are more fundamental changes than simply upgrading the arm. So I'd suggest a thorough investigation of suggested mods to the IIX (especially mine), and similar other decks - most don't cost too much - before upgrading the RB250 arm. /sreten.

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