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Old 17th November 2005, 08:26 AM   #21
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default nuff said, intellectual property.

Really, I didn't intend for this to become a discussion of intellectual property, but rather to point out that if relying or copying a commercial product one ought to be very carefull. As I stated, copying something and passing it off as your own is reprehensible. Yes we can be proud of our efforts, but credit should be made where it is due.

As far as "stealing" , I do agree that if you knowingly copy something, and start selling it, then I'd make sure that I had deep pockets and a really good lawyer.

If you can proove that you had begun the development of your thing before whomever else, then it would be slightly iffy.
I suspect this will be the last time I post on this thread unless specifically questioned. My intent was never to hijack this thread.
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Old 17th November 2005, 09:16 AM   #22
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Nanook,

I can understand your concerns about people ripping off other peoples ideas for commercial gain, but I'm pretty sure that they are few and far between. Surely the majority of people here on this forum are here because of their uncontrollable urge to 'make' stuff for their own satisfaction, and if they make something which other people here desire, then that's a bonus.

If a manufacturer becomes aware of a copyright infringement, I'm sure the moderators would be made aware of it pretty quickly, and any threads containing libellous material would be pulled immediately.
I'm curious as to the reason you chose to mention your concerns on this thread though. Has someone posted such material?
It wasn't me was it? Oh no.... I'm panicing now as I'm too poor to afford a lawyer, that's why I DIY.

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Old 17th November 2005, 03:38 PM   #23
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default bobhayes...I'm poor too

I was kinda of echoing comments made byMr. Scroeder himself in aprevious thread. I guess that, and the sympathy I have for Mr. Scheu and the family he left behind prompted me to make comment. I would hate to think that DIYs or people knocking off his products had anything to do with his choice to end his life.

I am poor too. I understand that not everyone can afford cvertain product. My own tone arm was inspired by the joke Altmann arm. I just used stuff I had available to me for no or little $$$, and the results were /are pretty astounding. It is better in almost everyway to my SME 309 (new series).

No specific finger pointing was intended. It really was just a reminder.
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Old 17th November 2005, 11:03 PM   #24
maxro is offline maxro  Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by bobhayes
I understand about keeping the axis of rotation aligned with the headshell to maintain azimuth.

I reckon the trickiest part is guesstimating the correct size for the magnets so as to hold the arm in place, but not drag it from its mount towards one side?

Did you estimate, or calculate? (The maths must be mind boggling!!)
I figure, if the magnets are eqidistant from the pivot and the disk is perfectly round and concentric, then the magnets will not cause any shifting. The pivot point would have to jump out of its socket for the arm to move out of line.

As far as magnet size, I just picked the smallest ones I could find 1/8" dia x 1/8" long.

Max
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Old 17th November 2005, 11:16 PM   #25
maxro is offline maxro  Canada
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Default Re: nuff said, intellectual property.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nanook
Really, I didn't intend for this to become a discussion of intellectual property, but rather to point out that if relying or copying a commercial product one ought to be very carefull. As I stated, copying something and passing it off as your own is reprehensible. Yes we can be proud of our efforts, but credit should be made where it is due.

As far as "stealing" , I do agree that if you knowingly copy something, and start selling it, then I'd make sure that I had deep pockets and a really good lawyer.

If you can proove that you had begun the development of your thing before whomever else, then it would be slightly iffy.
I suspect this will be the last time I post on this thread unless specifically questioned. My intent was never to hijack this thread.
No offense taken. However, I don't see how we are discussing a copy of anyone's work. I suggested that Bobhayes look at the schroeder arm discussion, because it seemed similar to his idea. Nothing more, nothing less.

I welcome all input in this thread (not that I started it). But, yeah, let's keep it on topic. What are your thoughts on my design?

Max
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Old 17th November 2005, 11:49 PM   #26
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
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Default Re: Re: to bobhayes... and a rant

Quote:
Originally posted by maxro




Now, the pivoting headshell, I will fully admit to copying that part from 47 Labs. It just seems like an interesting idea and one that I want to try out.



Max

have you any sketch about pivoting headshell?
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Old 18th November 2005, 03:18 AM   #27
maxro is offline maxro  Canada
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Default Re: Re: Re: to bobhayes... and a rant

Quote:
Originally posted by choky



have you any sketch about pivoting headshell?
Here's a couple links to the 47 Labs arm. The second link has a close-up of the RS-3 pivoting headshell which is available for a standard tonearm:

http://www.sakurasystems.com/articles/rs-a1.html

http://www.japanparts.com/Audio/rslabs.htm

Max
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Old 18th November 2005, 08:29 AM   #28
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default controlling azimuth with magnets...

Ok, maxro, I looked more closely at your design. it should work, but seems like a very complicated method to produce an easy way to adjust azimuth (If I understand your intent correctly).

Why not have azimuth adjusted by being able to move the conter weight axially about thre tonearm? Very easy to accomplish. I feel that using technology because you can is a waste of your talent. Clever, yes, but will it be more effective than other approaches? Perhaps. Perhaps not. I look forward to your results.
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Old 18th November 2005, 10:15 AM   #29
maxro is offline maxro  Canada
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Default Re: controlling azimuth with magnets...

Quote:
Originally posted by Nanook
Ok, maxro, I looked more closely at your design. it should work, but seems like a very complicated method to produce an easy way to adjust azimuth (If I understand your intent correctly).

Why not have azimuth adjusted by being able to move the conter weight axially about thre tonearm? Very easy to accomplish. I feel that using technology because you can is a waste of your talent. Clever, yes, but will it be more effective than other approaches? Perhaps. Perhaps not. I look forward to your results.

It's not to adjust azimuth, so much as to maintain it.

The good aspects of a unipivot are exremly low friction, no bearing chatter and ease of DIYing.

However, the bad attributes are:
1. wobbliness
2. need for a low slung counterweight and high pivot and the resulting fluctuation of tracking force on the stylus when warp riding.
3. change in azimuth while warp riding due to the pivot being horizontally offset from the axis of the cartridge.

A gimball bearing arm solves those problems, but is much harder to DIY. It requires very precise construction and expensive bearings to move smoothly and without play.

The orientation of the magnets in my design ought to make the unipivot behave like a gimball. Free to rotate horizontally around the point and up and down, over warps. The magnet to pivot point platform distance is unchanged in these directions.

Any torsional movement, however, will be corrected by the magnets, as this type of movement would require an increase in distance between the magnets and the platform. Both magnets would move (one up, one down) an equal distance from the platform if you were to force the arm to twist, thus it naturally tends to sit level.

So, if all goes as planned, I'll get the best of both worlds. We'll see, once I get my act together. Doing 3 projects at once isn't exactly speeding things along.

Max
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Old 18th November 2005, 10:47 AM   #30
EC8010 is offline EC8010  United Kingdom
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Oh my! I've just seen that headshell with adjustable azimuth. If there's one place where we don't want extra mass and a loss of rigidity, it's the headshell.

Taking maxro's points:

1. True, but it can be reduced.
2. Many arms are like this. But they don't have to be. My arm has its pivot at record height and has the counterweight only sufficiently low that the centre of gravity is fractionally loweer than the pivot.
3. True, but this is minimised if the stylus is on the centre axis of the arm.

Have a look at my arm and see what you think.

Unipivot pick-up arm
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