Interesting idea to make MM carts sound better...

Mr.Radar · 19th October 2005, 06:26 AM

I just saw this article over at Audio Asylum. The idea is certainly novel, but the article doesn't go into any details on how its implimented besides saying that a second, identical cartridge (to the one being used as the input) is installed in the feedback loop of the opamp in the circuit. I'm very intrigued, but I don't really know much about electronics. Anyone have any ideas on how this could be implimented? I'd love to try it.

AndrewT · 19th October 2005, 07:41 PM

Hi,
seems like the first flat stage gain block is replaced with this complex feedback gain block. Then the really flat signal is sent on for RIAA processing and out comes another flat signal. More majic or are all my flats getting jumbled?

planet10 · 19th October 2005, 07:50 PM

Very interesting. Besides a handful of functional Grados i have even more without stylus. Who wants to do the experiment?

My one viist to Paul & Stan's Santa Maria facility was VERY interesting....

dave

randytsuch · 19th October 2005, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Radar
I just saw this article over at Audio Asylum. The idea is certainly novel, but the article doesn't go into any details on how its implimented besides saying that a second, identical cartridge (to the one being used as the input) is installed in the feedback loop of the opamp in the circuit. I'm very intrigued, but I don't really know much about electronics. Anyone have any ideas on how this could be implimented? I'd love to try it.

Hey, that was my post at AA (and my blogger page)

.
So far, not much response at AA.
My engineering knowledge is limited to ones and zeros, so I am not sure how to implement it, that's why I asked the question at AA, to see if anybody over there would pick it up.
Too bad I can't get a hold of Stan on the phone anymore, he would be able to tell me how to implement it.

Randy

Mr.Radar · 20th October 2005, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by randytsuch

Hey, that was my post at AA (and my blogger page) .
So far, not much response at AA.
My engineering knowledge is limited to ones and zeros, so I am not sure how to implement it, that's why I asked the question at AA, to see if anybody over there would pick it up.
Too bad I can't get a hold of Stan on the phone anymore, he would be able to tell me how to implement it.

Randy

When I saw the thread at AA I immediately thought of this forum (if there's anyone out there who could figure this circuit out, they're probably here). Like you, I know hardly anything about analog electronics (my favorite form of DIY'ing is writing computer programs (if you consider that DIY'ing...), and recently PICs have piqued my interest (no pun intended), but I haven't gotten around to actually doing anything with them yet).

maxro · 20th October 2005, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AndrewT
Hi,
seems like the first flat stage gain block is replaced with this complex feedback gain block. Then the really flat signal is sent on for RIAA processing and out comes another flat signal. More majic or are all my flats getting jumbled?

Or, (possible stupid question) does the second cartridge do the RIAA correction for you?

Max

planet10 · 20th October 2005, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by maxro
Or, (possible stupid question) does the second cartridge do the RIAA correction for you?

No. The cartridge doesn't know anything about the RIAA -- it is embedded on the record.

dave

maxro · 20th October 2005, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by planet10

No. The cartridge doesn't know anything about the RIAA -- it is embedded on the record.

dave

Right, right. What was I thinking? It must be time for bed.

Max

earsandeyes · 20th October 2005, 06:32 PM

A very intriguing article. I should not have dumped my 30 year old multivariable control theory textbooks.

My first hunch was that you need an inverted model (system) to nill the anomalies.

Inverting not meaning that it is laying on its back??.

I would not have a clue anymore whether putting the (original) (model) in the feedbackloop would have the same effect. This will give some restless sleep.

E&E

Nanook · 20th October 2005, 07:08 PM

2 thinks strike me about this...

how easy it would be to implement for any cartridge.... and how easy it could ocur if your phono stage has a pair of inverted inputs..

As the owner of a wonderful sounding PS Audio lll phono stage, I'm gonna pop the hood and have a peak inside.. oir hunt down the owners manual/schematic if I still have it:-)

19th October 2005, 06:26 AM	#1
Mr.Radar diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA	Interesting idea to make MM carts sound better... I just saw this article over at Audio Asylum. The idea is certainly novel, but the article doesn't go into any details on how its implimented besides saying that a second, identical cartridge (to the one being used as the input) is installed in the feedback loop of the opamp in the circuit. I'm very intrigued, but I don't really know much about electronics. Anyone have any ideas on how this could be implimented? I'd love to try it.

19th October 2005, 07:41 PM	#2
AndrewT diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Scottish Borders	Hi, seems like the first flat stage gain block is replaced with this complex feedback gain block. Then the really flat signal is sent on for RIAA processing and out comes another flat signal. More majic or are all my flats getting jumbled? __________________ regards Andrew T.

19th October 2005, 07:50 PM	#3
planet10 frugal-phile(tm) diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III Blog Entries: 4	Very interesting. Besides a handful of functional Grados i have even more without stylus. Who wants to do the experiment? My one viist to Paul & Stan's Santa Maria facility was VERY interesting.... dave __________________ community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi p10-hifi forum here at diyA

20th October 2005, 06:32 PM	#9
earsandeyes diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: utrecht	inverted model A very intriguing article. I should not have dumped my 30 year old multivariable control theory textbooks. My first hunch was that you need an inverted model (system) to nill the anomalies. Inverting not meaning that it is laying on its back??. I would not have a clue anymore whether putting the (original) (model) in the feedbackloop would have the same effect. This will give some restless sleep. E&E

20th October 2005, 07:08 PM	#10
Nanook diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chinook Country.Alberta	inverted signal for "grado/PS Audio" tweal 2 thinks strike me about this... how easy it would be to implement for any cartridge.... and how easy it could ocur if your phono stage has a pair of inverted inputs.. As the owner of a wonderful sounding PS Audio lll phono stage, I'm gonna pop the hood and have a peak inside.. oir hunt down the owners manual/schematic if I still have it:-) __________________ stew ☮ -"A sane man in an insane world appears insane."


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