good cheap T4P cartridge?

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I was about to buy a Prestige Blue from Garage-A-Record but Grado would not let them sell it out of the USA. I don't see where the problem is but at the same time I found a shop that sells Grado which is 5 minutes away from me.

I'm buying a lot of things online but now I see that everything is just next door. :cannotbe: I've got Solen and a audiophile brands store/service center just 5 minutes away from me.
 
Yes, some of the USA cartridge companies are a bit strange, and want you to buy through the distributor in your country. Shure are the same, but it depends which dealer you talk to - some are happy to sell stuff that the manuafacturer doesn't want them to. I bought a stylus for my Shure V15 from a company in the USA, even though some other dealers in the USA don't want to sell them to us outside the USA. They were practically unobtainable in Australia, though, the local distributor couldn't get them, and Shure list them as no longer available, but some places in the USA still had them. If you can get the cartridge locally, then go for it.
 
I used to own an Audio Technica, and found it cheap and scratchy sounding.
I recently found a prestige cartridge (in a thrown out TT), stuck in a new black stylus, and am very impressed with it's performance.
I believe all of the Grado cartridges use the same body, and the stylus is upgradable from 3 piece to 4 piece cantilever and may try a green in the future, but for now I am very happy with the basic black.
Funny thing is that I never heard of them until about a fortnight ago!

Fully recommended!
 
So the store sells green, silver and gold in standard mount only. They told me they could get black in P-mount and silver too. They don't seem to want me to get blue or red for an unknown reason. I guess I should ask them for a green P-mount.

I don't think it's worth getting something better than green or black because the turntable is T4P and I would not be able to move the cart. to a better turntable, because there are many chances that it would not be a T4P.
 
So I've got my Black yesterday and installed it today.

It sounds great! But... it picks up everything : Motor, AC 60Hz, anything that touches the TT, etc.

I hear the motor running with my ears when there's no other sound around me. I guess it's a bit normal that the cartridge picks it up.

One real problem is that it distorts at the end of the disc. It only played a few hours so I guess it's just that.
 
Maybe your tonearm is being bound at the end of travel by the auto return mechanism

The auto-return starts only at the complete end of the disc.

Maybe it's because of where it's placed? It's on a stack of 3 tape decks.

On AA there seem to be a couple of people that had this kind of problem with Grado Prestige carts.

Some report it's only on some turntables and that with others there's nothing.

Maybe it's vibrations? Or maybe anti-skating it not working well?

I see a lot of mods to do with this TT :
-Shielding
-Put the AC wires travelling in the whole TT away
-Change motor(?)
etc.
 
I was going to suggest you take a look at the anti skate mechanism, and disconnect it if you can, for testing.
Level the TT too, this could help a lot!
I don't know why your picking up so much noise, my grado is pretty silent and has no screening, and there is a horrible transformer nearby!

Maybe you have an eathing problem or ground loop picking up noise like an aerial.

I know the auto return only WORKS at the end of the record, but on some TT's, the mechanism starts to engage well before this point, and I recently had to adjust and free up this mechanisn on an Aiwa TT with the symptom you described. I only thought it might be worth checking.
 
I was going to suggest you take a look at the anti skate mechanism, and disconnect it if you can, for testing.
How?


Level the TT too, this could help a lot!
Good idea!

I don't know why your picking up so much noise, my grado is pretty silent and has no screening, and there is a horrible transformer nearby!
Maybe you have an eathing problem or ground loop picking up noise like an aerial.

Even without cartridge there is hum pickup. If I unplug my cassette decks, there's less humming. If I unplug the TT there's practically no more of it. (Even if the transformer is off when the TT is off)

I think that it's because there are AC wires going under the platter(One for the auto-return and one for the speed light)

I think that good cables could help too!

If I still hear hum I think I'll have to go for a balanced pre.
 
You'll have to work out if it's possible to disconnect the anti skate as I don't know your TT.
Is there a separate earth terminal on the TT, as you will have a loop if you use this and the RCA's, if the RCA screen is connected at both ends.
A balanced pre would solve any noise problems for sure, but you should get good results without this expense.

Are you able to post pictures here? A photo of the wiring under your TT could help to find potential problems.

Is the motor AC or DC?
 
Here are the pics. They are pretty dark compared to the ones I made two weeks ago...

This one is in the TT.
 

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Ok,

The wiring layout looks pretty good at a glance.
You say the noise is worst when you have other equipment plugged into your amp?
Try isolating the turntable by only connecting the TT, amp and speakers...nothing else.
If there is still significant hum/noise, first see if the RCA jacks on the turntable share a common ground (screens connected together on the back of the RCA socket). If this is the problem, then you'll have to modify only ONE lead of the RCA pair by disconnecting the screen from one end only. This eliminates the gnd loop.

If that's not the problem, then look at the solder side of the PCB in the turntable. Check for 'dry joints' where the solder is cracked or damaged PCB tracks. You can go over all the joints quickly with a soldering iron to re make the joints if your not sure.
On the component side of the PCB look to see if all the capacitors look OK. I might suspect a bad electrolytic if the circuit has been unused for some time. A multimeter might help detect open circuits or shorts.

I still think your distortion might be caused by a stiff auto return though.

Good luck.
 
soo much plastic...!
IMHO, I would not spend much for a cart for this Technics.

I know!
Too late, the cart. is bought!

(But I LOVE the Nak!)

Bought 100$ while I could have got one for 15$. I rebuilt two motors and the other one would need to be rebuilt too.

You say the noise is worst when you have other equipment plugged into your amp?
No, when they are plugged in the power bar. The transformers make EMI that the TT picks up. With and without a cart.

One thing is that when I unplug it from the 120v, the hum reduces a lot. The only thing that happens when I do this is that one of the wires going to the switch(In the auto-return mechanics) stops receiving current. The fact that the mains wire is near make it pickup some hum. I think it's more related to the cheap RCA leads than anything else in this case.


A question I didn't answer : Yes, there is a separate ground lead.

One thing I might try would be to relocate the transformer in an external case.

Note that I didn't show the bottom cover but it's also made of plastic.

I'll try with the ground loops, even if it seems AC related only.
 
The Grado cartridges, although particularly sweet sounding for MM cartridges, are known to have a problem with their shielding, which has been around for many years. They pick up hum from the transformers and possibly the motors in some, but not all, turntables, unfortunately. Apparently they shouldn’t be used with Rega turntables, for instance, due to hum problems. Mine (a mid-1980’s Grado G+) certainly suffers from this, but it varies according to which turntables it is used on. The solution is probably to try shielding the transformer in the turntable, using a small earthed metal box, or relocate it from the turntable, as you’ve suggested. Some shielding may also be required for the motor, although it seems to be well away from the cartridge path. It may be difficult to shield the transformer due to the PCB in that corner of the turntable, so moving it may be the better option. Try moving the tonearm around, from the edge of the record, to the centre, without putting it down, or with the platter removed, to see if it is more susceptible in certain positions. I’d expect it would get louder as the cartridge moves closer to the transformer, which is usually on the opposite side to the tonearm – I assume that the transformer is under the PCB in the rear corner of yours, if there is one. With my cartridge, hum is really only noticeable during quiet passages, so I’ve put up with it, or used other cartridges. The turntable should be as far as possible from other equipment, to minimise hum pickup with any cartridge, from other equipment, such as your tape decks. Try a separate wall mounted shelf for it – that also minimises acoustic feedback. If that’s not possible, a small table or cupboard would be suitable. Get (or make) yourself a cheap hi-fi rack, so that you can keep your components apart. Cassette decks are also prone to picking up hum, particularly from things like amps, so it’s best to give them each a separate shelf – it helps cooling, too.

Make sure that your turntable’s earth wire, which usually earths the tonearm, is connected to a good earth. Better quality amplifiers or preamps will often have a ‘phono earth’ terminal next to the phono sockets, but if not, earth it somewhere else to a mains earth, if possible. You shouldn’t get an earth loop with that, despite what my fellow Aussie bobhayes said, because the turntable earth wire is (usually) not for the cartridge earths, but just earths the tonearm, preventing the unshielded tonearm wiring from having hum induced into it, by providing an earthed shielding effect. Having said that, some cartridge manufacturers do make life difficult by connecting the tonearm earth to the cartridge earth pins. I would say that part, if not all, of your hum problem is definitely hum induced directly from other equipment, rather than into an earth loop. You can tell easily if it’s an earth loop. Unplug the RCA plugs for everything except the turntable from the amp. Then, pull out slightly one of the turntable RCA plugs at the amp, so that only its centre hot pin is making contact (keep the volume well down while doing that, or switch the amp off for a minute). If the hum reduces after doing that, then that earth is redundant, due to an earth loop, so leave it like that, partially unplugged. If the hum increases, or you lose sound from that channel, there is no earth loop to the turntable.

It shouldn’t distort at the end of the record. That would suggest that either it’s out of alignment, which isn’t possible with a P-mount, or a problem with the tracking near the end of the record. Another suggestion, if it’s an old record, is that the distortion’s on the record, so try another one. If the distortion level changes, it may be a particular record or records. Try setting the tracking weight towards the upper limit of the cartridge manufacturers suggested range is always a good idea – about 1.5 grams for the Grado. The anti-skating, if it’s adjustable, should be set to the same weight as the tracking force. It will most likely be a small wheel marked with numbers next to the tonearm base. I’m a bit unsure about P-mount cartridge adjustment, as I don’t have one myself, and Technics turntable user manuals seem to suggest that all P-mount cartridges track at exactly the same weight, by not referring to it at all! Surely you should then be able to adjust the tracking weight to a different figure, if required? In fact, many P-mount cartridges give a range of tracking weights, so it should be necessary to adjust tracking weight and anti-skating somewhere on your turntable, I’d expect. Obviously Technics expects you to figure it out for yourself, or read their minds, based on the user manual (SL-BD22D) that I downloaded from the Vinyl Engine website! I discovered some generic P-mount info, which I already knew, on the LP-Gear (Elex Atelier) website, at http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LG&Category_Code=T4P .

Based on what I’ve seen elsewhere on the net about Technics P-mount turntables, after I’d written the previous paragraph, it may be that they were pre-set for a specific playing weight (1.25g). Apparently T4P cartridges are supposed to all weigh exactly the same weight, 6g, which is why you can just plug and screw them in and set the tracking weight and start playing a record immediately. So it may be 1.25g is too light to work properly with the Grado Black – Grado suggest 1.5g for their Prestige series cartridges. For a recent model Technics P-mount turntable, Technics actually give the tracking weight specification as 1.25 ± 0.25g, so it seems that they are adjustable within a specific range. Whether or not the anti-skating is adjustable, I don’t know – it may just be optimised for an elliptical stylus tracking at 1.25g. The way to tell for sure would be to get hold of a test record. The Hi-Fi News and Record Review test record is still being produced, and can test tracking and anti-skating. The Shure test records are also very good, and can be picked up quite cheaply on Ebay regularly – I bought several (different versions) a few years ago from the USA, and the total cost for each to Australia was less than A$20.

Maybe you should ask Grado, or Technics (Panasonic), what the story is with setting up your turntable to suit the Grado. After all, they seem to like making life difficult for you by providing minimalist instructions, so make them earn their money by answering your questions! P-mount was a good idea, but before it could become the standard system for tonearms and cartridges, CD came in, and turntable popularity fell off so much that many manufacturers, including most of the Japanese ones, simply abandoned turntables. Because the Japanese often led hi-fi trends, and were the ones who had started switching to P-mount tonearms and cartridges, there is only a limited range of P-mount cartridges available these days. While your turntable isn’t ideal, it should be capable of good results with good quality cartridges. The tonearm looks OK, and should work well with most medium to high compliance cartridges. Many light “wooden box” turntables are probably worse than your plastic one, when it comes to resonance in the basic structure. It’s built to a price, and obviously isn’t to the same standard as the SL-1200 to1600 range, or the SL-10, but they cost several times the price, even secondhand.
 
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