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Old 26th September 2002, 01:34 PM   #1
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Default Mc + Gold

Gents,

Anyone having a good solid arguement as to use gold conductors iso say copper or silver?

I'm thinking especially in high-end MC's here?


Cheers,
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Old 26th September 2002, 07:23 PM   #2
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Only reason I can think of is that you can draw gold into very tiny diameters and that they are probably very flexible. Likely your insulation will be the limiting factor here.
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Old 27th September 2002, 03:29 AM   #3
dice45 is offline dice45  Germany
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Frank,
the argument one member mentioned in the other thread, that gold has another weight, does not appear plausible to me.

vdHul uses ultrathin wires to get a few more windings on the coil for i given total coil weight, One buddy remarked "don't breathe too hard at the greasshopper, you might rip off the wiring"

Flexibility and a fewer count of imperfections in the wire's crystal pattern sounds more plausible to me.
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Old 27th September 2002, 01:07 PM   #4
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Default MC GOLD

Fellows,

Both of you have a point here.
The comparative weight ratio is indeed not the factor.
The choice of gold as opposed to silver was one of crystaline structure.
Also it was reported to sound "better".
The flexibility turned out to be more of a problem than a blessing.
The first batches supplied to a number of manufacturers were so pure (OFAU,9 nines) that it just broke when winding the coils.
So,iso sacrificing this purity we went for a higher tensile strength insulator (Kapton) and asked the coil manufacturers to hand wind the coils.
This solved the warranty issue but it was a royal PITA.

All of you will also have noticed the substantially lower output of these MC's which again makes them very susceptible to lose resolution of low level detail if not matched carefully to the headamp (be that transformer or active device).
A little trick to enhance RFI rejection on such low voltage carriers is to polarize the shielding of the interconnect cable with a battery.

Quote:
"don't breathe too hard at the greasshopper, you might rip off the wiring"
Oh,yes.Any displacement of the coil windings will upset their operating field.Those windings should have been fixed to the coil after winding was finished.
Or not be exposed to the elements at all.
I think that what they do now having learned the hard way.

Those of you curious to see the innards of a high-tech catridge can take a look at:

http://users.pandora.be/jallaerts/



Thks for your input,
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Old 27th September 2002, 11:21 PM   #5
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Bernhard,

I cannot find the thread where this discussion started, but I
realize from this new thread that I probably misunderstood
you, or took your question too literally. My suggestion about
the different mass of a gold coil was a speculation, not a claim,
but I based it on a wrong assumption from your posting and it
should probably no longer be on the shortlist for the most
plausible explanations. If memory doesn't fail me, you questioned
whether the different conductance of silver and gold could
really make the difference, from which I assumed that the coils
were wound with the same gauge and the same number of
turns in both cases, since you did not consider any other
parameters. In that case the masses would be quite different.
I see now that you didn't mean that. However, what I really
wanted to say, and probably should have said clearly, was that
we shouldn't even limit ourselves to electrical explanations
since we are dsicussing intricate electromechanical devices.

We know now that the reason for using gold wire was the
assumption that a different crystal structure would give a
better sound, and that a better sound was achieved. We do
not know, however, if the reason that the sound improved
was actually the different crystal structure, or some other
parameter.
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Old 27th September 2002, 11:58 PM   #6
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Default MC + GOLD

Christer,

Actually the thread you refer to is this one:

Gold or silver plating soldered boards?

Don't loose any sleep over it though.

From the feedback we got from various manufacturers the use of gold wire on the coils allowed for a reduced distortion spectrum.
Admittedly not by that much but when related to high end cartridges a reduction of n% is still worthwhile.
When asked if they put it down to the use of the gold wire iso of the more common gold or silver all of them were rather secretive about.
Hence my question here.

Best rgds,
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Old 28th September 2002, 12:13 AM   #7
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I think it is much more simple then that.
Using gold is just something that sounds good for the potential cutomer. And it is a kind of primitive argument for manufacturers when they try to sell those cartridges for 5000 - 10000$.
That works even better if you put the generator in wooden body.
---
Holger
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Old 28th September 2002, 12:19 AM   #8
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Frank,

I admit to having sleeping problems, but I can assure it has
nothing to do with this topic.

Thank for the link to the thread, I had forgotten the discussion
was that much off-topic to the actual thread.

Although most things are interesting if digging deep enough
into them, I am not that much concerned about the answer
to this question. I was just trying to help the discussion a
little bit by pointing out that Bernhard was perhaps jumping
to conlusion a bit hastily. Sorry, but I am a scientist by
profession, so I cannot help it.
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Old 28th September 2002, 12:31 AM   #9
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Default MC + GOLD

Hi guys,

Quote:
I think it is much more simple then that.
Holger,

"That" is precisely what I want to keep out of the equation in the first place.
We all know that the slightest mention of the word "gold" helps to sell the product.

Christer,

Suffering from insomnia too eh?
Let's not make an issue about this.We all understood your hint I think.
If OTHO,you feel like digging into this pls. do!

Cheers,
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Old 28th September 2002, 12:59 AM   #10
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Default Re: MC + GOLD

Quote:
Originally posted by fdegrove
Hi guys,
Let's not make an issue about this.We all understood your hint I think.
If OTHO,you feel like digging into this pls. do!

Well, there are too many other topics I find more interesting
from my point of view to dig deeper into this one. Besides,
because of what I said above I think
the issue is best investigated by somebody having good
knowledge in mechanics, or perhaps a physicist, and some
EE too, of course.

BTW I had no intention of making a big issue of this or starting
a heated debate. I was just trying to point out that it might
be beneficial for the discussion to have a broad mind about
the possible explanations, that way perhaps being somewhat
helpful to those of you who are more concerned about the topic.
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