The problem with audio circuits is that there is no "evident" problem with giving them just enough current. They will still play music.
But there is a huge difference between "just enough" current and "plenty" current.
Really... people need to stop seeing electronic items as perfect parts that are described perfectly by their prime rating... (in our case the VA rating of a transformer).
The same goes for audio circuit current needs. Audio circuit momentary current "needs" could be significantly different from the average 30ma that our DMM gives. And potentially significantly different from what our spikey switching diodes, slow caps and wavey transformer can provide at any given moment...
And yes audio circuits are like any other circuit... they just have many other parameters that make a difference...
Oh and you will be surprised of what an OP27 can do in terms of high-end....
But there is a huge difference between "just enough" current and "plenty" current.
Really... people need to stop seeing electronic items as perfect parts that are described perfectly by their prime rating... (in our case the VA rating of a transformer).
The same goes for audio circuit current needs. Audio circuit momentary current "needs" could be significantly different from the average 30ma that our DMM gives. And potentially significantly different from what our spikey switching diodes, slow caps and wavey transformer can provide at any given moment...
And yes audio circuits are like any other circuit... they just have many other parameters that make a difference...
Oh and you will be surprised of what an OP27 can do in terms of high-end....
Lets put transformer power a different way.
Here in the UK the speed limit is 70mph. Therefore no one REQUIRES a car that can go faster than that. It is totally unnecessary excpet ...
... a car that CAN go faster will obviously have a greater reserve of power that can cope with uneven terrain, hills, snow etc.
Which makes more sense?
Here in the UK the speed limit is 70mph. Therefore no one REQUIRES a car that can go faster than that. It is totally unnecessary excpet ...
... a car that CAN go faster will obviously have a greater reserve of power that can cope with uneven terrain, hills, snow etc.
Which makes more sense?
The reality is that everyone who knows what Ohm's law is, should stop harassing his mind with audiophiles believings.
Now consider a peak output voltage coming from an usual RIAA preamplifier(I make mine capable of driving power amps directly) and put it against a worst case scenario - say 5k load impedance and do the math. Resulting current multiply by 2 or 3 and that's all the power needed from the power transformer including plenty of "headroom" and current capability.
Now consider a peak output voltage coming from an usual RIAA preamplifier(I make mine capable of driving power amps directly) and put it against a worst case scenario - say 5k load impedance and do the math. Resulting current multiply by 2 or 3 and that's all the power needed from the power transformer including plenty of "headroom" and current capability.
The reality is that everyone who knows what Ohm's law is, should stop harassing his mind with audiophiles believings.
Now consider a peak output voltage coming from an usual RIAA preamplifier(I make mine capable of driving power amps directly) and put it against a worst case scenario - say 5k load impedance and do the math. Resulting current multiply by 2 or 3 and that's all the power needed from the power transformer including plenty of "headroom" and current capability.
We are talking science. Belief has nothing to do with it... We are talking about experiments and repeatable results.
Quoting an oversimplified model proves nothing...
Have you experimentally verified your hypothesis that bigger transformers do not make a difference?
We did experiment and the result is almost always that they do make a difference...
Have you done a proper ABX blind testing? That would be the only scientific method(you do like science do you?) for testing theories physics fail to explain. It's used in pharmacy(to prove placebo effect absence/or presence). Any other so called "testings tests" involving listening+looking is nothing but meaningless words.
Much but not all the science goes out the window when we take the subject from circuit design and component parameters to reproducing music. Now my digital front end is very satisfying and I can listen for hours without fatigue. I expect my phono playback to go beyond what is expected on digital, as long as the recording is good. I look to music listening for a safe harbor to relax and unwind and this is the context I judge any component being evaluated. Can I relax while listening?
I once read a description of the concepts of the Heil Air Motion Transformer and why it worked so well in music reproduction. It that article, and the part I never forgot was a description how the human ear is able to key in on the sound of the human voice even within a very noisy environment. The example was top people talking back and forth on different sides of the street in New York City. He later took some basic recoring equipment and measured background noise and the level of speech. He was astounded when playing back recordings from both sides of the street they were never able to pick up recognizable speech patterns amid the noise. His assumption from the experiment was that the ear when subject to a noisy environment could self tune to make speech recognizable.
The ear/brain should not be dismissed as an inferior testing tool. I am not saying to do away with science or testing just don't loose sight of what purpose the design is for.
I once read a description of the concepts of the Heil Air Motion Transformer and why it worked so well in music reproduction. It that article, and the part I never forgot was a description how the human ear is able to key in on the sound of the human voice even within a very noisy environment. The example was top people talking back and forth on different sides of the street in New York City. He later took some basic recoring equipment and measured background noise and the level of speech. He was astounded when playing back recordings from both sides of the street they were never able to pick up recognizable speech patterns amid the noise. His assumption from the experiment was that the ear when subject to a noisy environment could self tune to make speech recognizable.
The ear/brain should not be dismissed as an inferior testing tool. I am not saying to do away with science or testing just don't loose sight of what purpose the design is for.
No AB tests for me but my girlfriend, mother, sister and friends could hear the change and I assure you they do not give a damn what transformer is in that black box on the floor... I didn t even mention it to them...
sigh... just give it a try guys... it s that simple... It s a few bucks and even if it does not work, you can always use the spare trafo on your next project...
Try as I may when I think I have something "right" I have my wife and daughter come listen to it. They ALWAYS hear something I missed.
Women do have better hearing and don't try to describe it in "Audiophile" terms...
.. and that will be THE END of "hi-fi"..
Now consider a peak output voltage coming from an usual RIAA preamplifier(I make mine capable of driving power amps directly) and put it against a worst case scenario - say 5k load impedance and do the math. Resulting current multiply by 2 or 3 and that's all the power needed from the power transformer including plenty of "headroom" and current capability.
That's it.. 1.9VA tranformer is killer for phonoclone.. anyone who doesn't agree don't believe in modern physics, or using another one..
And now to something different
So after 5 months having the phonoclone kit i seem to get all the part and time ready to build mine..
I decided to go with the mur860's as rectifiers bit since i couldn't find a pcb a bought some etch stuff and am going to make my own. Never did that so might be fun.
I made this with an application called fritzing, but since i'm more of an artist type than an engineer i might made something very stupid
Does any of you see strange things going on? The A and K's stand for anode & cathode. I'm not sure about the copper fill, is that useful somehow, next to not ruin the etch solution quicker?
Thanks for any advice!
So after 5 months having the phonoclone kit i seem to get all the part and time ready to build mine..
I decided to go with the mur860's as rectifiers bit since i couldn't find a pcb a bought some etch stuff and am going to make my own. Never did that so might be fun.
I made this with an application called fritzing, but since i'm more of an artist type than an engineer i might made something very stupid
Does any of you see strange things going on? The A and K's stand for anode & cathode. I'm not sure about the copper fill, is that useful somehow, next to not ruin the etch solution quicker?
Thanks for any advice!
Attachments
before i push the pay button will these transformers and rectifiers work and do the job?
Buy Toroidal Transformers Transformer Toroidal 120VA 2x12V RS 81546RS online from RS for next day delivery.
RS PN 671-8996
Buy Bridge Rectifiers Bridge rectifier,GBPC3504W 35A 400V Vishay VS-GBPC3504W online from RS for next day delivery.
RS PN 395-4360
thanks
Buy Toroidal Transformers Transformer Toroidal 120VA 2x12V RS 81546RS online from RS for next day delivery.
RS PN 671-8996
Buy Bridge Rectifiers Bridge rectifier,GBPC3504W 35A 400V Vishay VS-GBPC3504W online from RS for next day delivery.
RS PN 395-4360
thanks
thanks simonov
i'm getting the headphone amp as well and plan on using 4 transformers and 8 rectifiers in total. yes it's OTT but i like OTT.
no point in doing things half measure. besides what this is going to cost me the shop bought alternative is pro-ject, cambridge audio or graham slee and those would cost a hell of a lot more. reason for me building these myself is if they break then i can fix them.
i don't have to pay for cases as i can get them custom made from SS for nowt but my plan is to match my pink triangle LPT ash plinth for the cases
i'm getting the headphone amp as well and plan on using 4 transformers and 8 rectifiers in total. yes it's OTT but i like OTT.
no point in doing things half measure. besides what this is going to cost me the shop bought alternative is pro-ject, cambridge audio or graham slee and those would cost a hell of a lot more. reason for me building these myself is if they break then i can fix them.
i don't have to pay for cases as i can get them custom made from SS for nowt but my plan is to match my pink triangle LPT ash plinth for the cases
It worth to try a bigger transformer and you'll get, may be, the difference between high quality and commercial products (modern or not). There are several posts concerning this aspect. It's possible to discover, on your LPs, musical instruments that previously never did appear. I did listen Plinius Audio Koru and compared to VSPS in showroom, using my own LPs. It well deserve to build up VSPS. Watch details... it worth. Happy audition, everyone!
now that sounds good
kit dropped threw the letterbox today. boards look very very good quality.
i was not expecting the IC sockets to be included and might not use them. now where is that magnifying glass.. thanks Richard.
it'll be a cppl weeks till i can actually demo this thing as i'm still building my LPT back up.
let the fun begin