Buying a Rega Planar3 w RB300

[m127]

Hi all,

I was offered a 7-year-old Rega Planar3 with the original RB-300 tonearm, at 70.000 HUF (about 300 EUR). I think it is a very good offer if the TT is in good shape. The seller also offers two cartridges none of which I know: the Audio Technica F3 OCC and the AT OC7. These are separately sold, and since I didn't manage to find any info about them (I guess they're discontinued) I decided not to buy them.

My questions are:
1. What special problems to look for when checking the TT before buy?
2. Am I right that I shouldn't buy these old cartridges?
3. Can you please give me some advice what cartridges to look for? Of course I want a good solution at a reasonable price. OK, so it should be cheap, but something that is matching the quality of the player.

I will buy a NAD PP2, so I'll have both MC and MM inputs. I guess I should buy MC cartridges, right?

I will listen to jazz, classical, blues. Music made with instruments, not computers.
Thanks, M.

[phn]

Since nobody has replied... I have never had a Rega TT. But I know they have a very sound construction -- simple and cheaply made. Cheap as in economical (like the dirt cheap glass platter), not in terms of quality. While I wouldn't know, I don't think there are any particular weaknesses. There’s room for improvements, sure. But that's another story.

I don't know about the cartridges either. But I wouldn't rule them out. And since you have an MC amp, you should most definitely go MC. There's still no substitute for low output MCs, even though MM cartridges like the Goldring 1022 should be more than good enough.

While most people have their own personal taste, I would say just about any low output MC Ortofon, AT, Benz or Goldring should do. The Denon DL-103 is a perennial favourite. But I would recommend that one for high-mass arms only. I know it's widely used on medium-mass arms like the SME 3009/3012 (which can be made into high(er)-mass arms by using a heavier headshell) and even works on some damped low-mass arms. But with so many great cartridges out there in the same price range, I can't see why you should go with a cartridge that excels with a high-mass arm.

[m127]

Thanks phn, it's always nice to hear from anybody in Sweden (I'm a real fan of your contry!)

I haven't bought the TT yet, because it's far in the countryside and I didn't have time for the journey yet. All I know that it's told to be in perfect condition and the arm is the famous original RB-300, and the arm wiring was upgraded to vdH by Dunaudio (a famous audio tuning company here in Hungary).

I haven't decided about the cartridge, but MC is the way to go, I agree. Goldring is told to be good but very expensive here, but I can get Ortofon types or Denon. Can you please recommend some types from Ortofon? (Only those low output MCs).

I haven't purchased the phono stage either, and I'm a bit confused because I was decided to buy the NAD and now I read some reviews saying that the Pro-Ject PhonoBox is better (and cheaper) than that. Any comments on that?

[m127]

Another thing. I saw a Pro-ject 6.1 TT at about 200 EUR, with Goldring 1022. It's totally a different design from the Rega, because it's suspended, while the Rega isn't. What are the benefits and drawbacks of the two different designs? (I know they also need different supports).
I've also read somewhere that the arm supplied with the Pro-ject 6.1 is not as good as the Rega RB-300.
Now the question:
Which one is better, the Pro-ject 6.1 at 200 EUR or the Rega Planar 3 with RB-300, no cartridge at about 285 EUR.

[m.parigi]

The ideal situation would be if you could have the Project base with the Rega arm! But I understand this is not the case, so... here is my two cents worth of advice.

First of all, whilst the Rega and the Project TT have both strengths and weaknesses, the RB-300 tonearm is much better than the Project. This alone should make you decide in favor of the Rega.

Then, you may want to consider that the Rega is critical in terms of placement: since it is a rigid plinth, the surface you put it on is going to have a tremendous effect on the final quality of the sound. This will also give you a lot of space for tweaking! You could start by building a dampened base on which to put the TT, like the ones that are made by Gingko Audio in the US. By comparison, a floating base TT like the project is much more difficult to tweak (and to properly tune, for that matter!). Even putting it on a vibration absorbing base could generate more problems than it solves.

Let's get to the cartridge now: Denon is one of my favorites, so I admit I'm biased. Anyway, I think it's probably the best sounding one you can get for 100 EUR or so! There's plenty of experimenting there too: if you feel that the sound you get is "shalllow", lacking depth and punch on the bass, you may put an additional weight (a flat piece of lead will do) under the cartridge. As a consequence the counterbalance weight will move at the farther end of the arm, thus increasing inertia and mass.

Last, not least, the phono preamp: I don't know the NAD, but there's plenty of RIAA preamp projects on this board! The "Project" could be a starting point but, unless you build your own, you may want to invest a little bit more and get a better sounding one. You'd be amazed at the difference!

[m127]

I agree with you. Now I feel I prefer the Rega. First of all because the arm is told to be so good.
(Though the Pro-ject arm has VTA, reviews say it's a cheap and bad solution).
The RB-300 arm on this particular TT is rewired with vdH arm wire by a company doing some serious audio upgrades and also producing equipment here in Hungary. I trust them, I think they have the knowledge and experience. If this mod is done correctly then this may increase the value of the Rega.
I just haven't decided what stand I will make...

[phn]

My experience, and it's limited, is that suspended decks excel with classical music. Hard suspension, in turn, tends to be better with rock music. I'm a huge Thorens fan, but decided on a Garrard 301 because of the suspension. And while the Rega is more susceptible to vibrations, Rega does offer a (probably expensive) wall mount. I speak as somebody that has never been a Rega fan and has never owned anything Rega.

One of the things (perhaps THE thing) Rega decks are famous for is their tweakability. But the great part about it is that they already have a sound construction to build on.

From what I have heard, the NAD is a good budget phono amp. But perhaps the Pro-Ject amp is better. I wouldn't know. I do second m.parigi, though. You can do a lot better with some of the phono amps here.

As for cartridges, I have to second m.parigi again. But I can only speak as an old Thorens/SME guy. And many people using an SME 3009/3012 with a DL-103 also use an Orsonic or Clearaudio headshell, which cost about €200. Sure, there are other alternatives, as pointed out by m.parigi. But unless you don't want to shell out more money or do a lot of tweaking, I would recommend a cart with higher compliance.

Vinyl fans often fool themselves by buying a relatively cheap deck and then spend a lot more money on upgrades. I think that the RB-250 is superior to the RB-300, for example. AFTER modification, that is. And if you get the works on the RB-250 it's not a low-price arm at all. In fact, by paying an additional 20-30 pct you can get what might just be the best arm in the world, the 47 Labs arm. And that's at least part of the reason I decided to pay thru the nose for that Garrard. It's a deck "worth" spending money on. The day I'm mature enough, I will sell the Garrard and go stock Thorens TD-150 Mk I with the first edition TP-13.

Yes, the Goldring 1022 MM cart is expensive. But it's still much cheaper than the Shure V 15. I would take the Goldring any day. But we're talking MCs here. I can't really recommend any cart over another. But the Ortofon MC 10 is probably one of the cheaper ones, though not as cheap as the Denon carts. If you decide on Benz or Goldring we're talking about €250 and up. I mentioned Audio Technica earlier, but really know nothing about them.

Buying a tt isn't as easy as buying a CD player. Nor is it very cheap. Say you go with the P3, DIY phono amp and Ortofon MC 10, we're probably talking at least €500. If you want that Rega wall mount, that's probably another €200. In other words, you can get lots out of the P3 if you only are willing to pay. Only you can decide if it's worth paying twice the money, or more, for a few pct improvement.

Sorry for getting longwinded, but at least I think I covered it all.

[m127]

Hm. If you're right with saying that suspended is better for classical music then definitely this is the way I should go. I listen to jazz, blues, classical, not really (or rarely) rock and no computer music at all.

I think it's nice to have some room for tweaking but that's all. I don't want to turn my TT into a 'tweaking battlefield', as someone said. For example if the Rega has the old O-ring flexible motor mount then I think it must be replaced, and it's a pain to buy a deck if you know from the start that you will have to order a 150 USD upgrade kit right at the beginning. Not to mention that the new motor will be 'mounted' by a double sided adhesive tape. (!)

So I think maybe the best solution is to buy the pro-ject, at least it comes complete with an arm and a cart, and this way I can spare some money which I can turn into a better phono stage than the NAD I was about to buy. Or maybe I'll try to do it diy. This page is a great help, my stereo amp I'm listening to right now is a Gainclone...

Another thing. This pro-ject 6.1 has the platter of a 6.9. Is it really a benefit? Are they intercangeable so easy? By the way, what is the difference between the 6.1 and 6.9 turntables? Iknow that the 6.1 is discontinued and I couldn't really find anything about it on the net, with the exception of a single review...

[phn]

I will leave this thread to somebody that knows more, and there has to be somebody on this forum that can fill in where I draw a blank. What hard suspension decks tend to have en mass is attack. But it would be nice with a second voice, agreeing or not, on my claim that floating suspension decks excel with classical music. (I'm a firm believer in hard suspension. But I don't listen to classical music.)

€200 for the Pro-Ject deck with a Goldring 1022 does look like a great buy. That's less than the price of a 1022. And I don't think it's wrong to buy a Pro-Ject phono amp. After all, you want the deck up and running. Later you could try a DIY amp, preferably a simple dual mono design.

[analog_sa]

I am not sure that the presence or absence of suspension is so important for classical music. Then again, i spend real effort isolating non-suspended decks...

Is 300EUR such a great price for a Rega? Is there nothing else that can be found in Budapest for less? The lack of suspension is the least prob the P3 has - the horrible cheap motor/bearing and platter make listening to piano music a torture.

I remember well the time people were buying a Planar3 for the arm and junking the table. The arm is still a decent performer and the combo may be quite enjoyable with rock and jazz but i am less certain about classical.