Thorens TD-160 Skipping

Kofi Annan · 30th October 2004, 01:56 PM

I'm running out of ideas to fix a problem, so I'm back at well... again.

About a month ago, I purchased a Thorens TD-160 from Ebay and installed a Grado Black cartridge. Although the belt is stretched (waiting for a new belt to arrive) and the playback is too fast, it really sounds nice. Unfortunately, every time the tonearm gets near the center of a record, it begins to skip badly.

Here's what I tried to do to fix it:

* Re-balanced turntable (I'm not very good at this)
* Increased / decreased tracking force
* Increased / decreased anti-skate
* Cursed uncontrollably
* Blamed Mrs. Annan

Nothing so far has worked. I'm thinking that the belt may have something to do with it, but I'm not sure. Also, its possible (although I hope not) that the tonearm is on its way out. I'm inclined to believe that it has something to do with the tonearm-- maybe the anti-skate is getting on and its being a bit too agressive? Also, it certainly possible that I have screwed up the cartridge mounting-- never had any experience with this, but I was fairly meticulous about it, so I hope its right.

Anyway, I'm out of ideas, so if someone could just come to the 33rd floor of the UN building and fix this, or at least offer some advice, I would really appreciate it.

Yours in asenine questions,
Kofi

Carondimonio · 30th October 2004, 03:50 PM

Hi Kofi,

nice to see you around again!

I didn' t quite understand your problem; what do you mean by "skipping"? Does the arm jump from one groove to another, or does it repeat the same groove over and over?
As far as I understood, your problem happens only when the arm approaches the inner part of the record, right?
Did you have this problem right from the start, or did it appear only recently?
And, last but not least, if the arm jumps from one groove to another (yes, I know, it' s just a single, spiralled groove...), does it do always in the same direction (that is, always forward or backward) or randomly?

Cheers,

Bruno

audio-kraut · 30th October 2004, 04:55 PM

Dear Mr. Annan, are there not more serious problems you have to attend to?

When you balance the toneam neutrally - that means no forces are applied in the vertical (weight) or horizontal position (antiskating), can you then move the tonarm without problems from the outer edge to the inner edge of the arc? My suspicion - a problem that I had wiith similar thorens tonearms: the tonarm wire where it exiits the wire bushing on the bottom of the arm actually exerts a force and you have to make sure the wire is run in a way - somehow a loop - that is is not effecting the tonearm movement. Trial and error only helps here.

AndrewT · 30th October 2004, 05:18 PM

Hi kofi,
I agree with audio-K.
Set both the downforce and antiskate to zero. Arm should hang level with tip just 1mm above the record surface and when you place it anywhere above a track it should stay there.
Check for free movement of the arm across the whole width of the tracks.
regards Andrew T.

Kofi Annan · 31st October 2004, 01:45 AM

Quote:

the tonarm wire where it exiits the wire bushing on the bottom of the arm actually exerts a force

That was it!

Quote:

you have to make sure the wire is run in a way - somehow a loop - that is is not effecting the tonearm movement

Actually, I just kind of rigged it so that the wire is run around the hole thingee and not directly run into it. Too technical?

Anyway, that did the trick. Finally, I'm listening to Stevie Wonder at about 110% speed (the new belt did not arrive today, as expected) in my living room! Sing it, Littler, Faster Stevie!

Thanks again for all the input. Without this forum, I'd only be the Secretary General of the United Nations. Now, I'm the Sec Gen wit da shizzle, dizzle!

Now back to the Iraqi elections. January will be here before you know it.

Damn.

Kofi

Kofi Annan · 31st October 2004, 01:50 AM

UPDATE

I broke the goddamn tonearm wire. Please stop me from killing.

Can I fix this or will I have to scorch the tonearm in the all-cleansing fire?

Please help me. Please. For the sake of the world.

Kofi

planet10 · 31st October 2004, 06:18 AM

i'll 3rd that suggestion... it is also possible that the tonearm has rotated in its mounting (IIRC they can do this)....

dave

audio-kraut · 31st October 2004, 06:22 AM

http://www.theanalogdept.com/tp16mkii_rewire.htm - good news first: if you have that arm, it isn't that bad and with some ppatience and a lot of swearing it can be done. If you have the arm with the idiotic stainless steel headshell where the cartridge has to be screwed on from below

In this case you can try to remove the plastic connector on the bearing side of the arm after removing the aluminum union (watch that pin) by pushing it with some long blunt instrument (failed screwdriver) inserted from the rear of the arm - HOLD THAT ARM FIRMLY - cut off the old wire about an inch away from the plastic connector and fix new wire to the remainder - carefull soldering and then somehow insulating with the thinnest heatshrink available?? or careful with some electrical tape.

The new wire should be pushed into the arm as soon as the old one has been removed - push in from the bottom of the arm mount, and than through the hole in the bootom of the arm tube all the way forward, make sure enough is hanging out on both ends.

Watch that you can fit the whole shebang back into the arm, someone carfully pulls the wire back from the mounting end of the arm while the other person pushes in the plastic connector: WATCH THE PIN ORIENTATION of the connector, and then push back on the alum. piece and reinsert the pin that secure both plastic conn. and alum. union.
Confused - no problem, just let me know when you are ready to jump

Kofi Annan · 1st November 2004, 11:17 PM

Thanks for the advice, AK. Unfortunately, I have the idiotic-screw-in-from-bottom deal, so it looks like I'll be working on that this coming weekend.

So, to add to my frustration, my new belt came today and IT PLAYS EVEN FASTER THAN THE OLD ONE!!!

Hey, does this sheot happen to anyone else but me?

Anyway, I figured maybe it just needs some time, so I'm currently letting it spin around and around. Is this something that will get better in a few hours / days after it plays for a while or am I just screwed forever?

I gots stick to international crisis resolution. Easier on the stomach.

Kofi

audio-kraut · 2nd November 2004, 12:30 AM

Hi kofi - whre did you get thos turntable from? It sounds to me your pulley ain't the right size.

I didn't glue in to your speed problems right away, otherwise I could have told you it is unlikely to be a belt problem.

I have my 160 in the attic - waiting for the new tonearm to be installed

- which by the way is the one with the proper and not the idiotic headshell - and cannot for the life of me remember if that unit is somehow switchable between 120/220V.

Because if that unit has a motor that can operate on both voltages my guess is that your pulley is the one for 50Hz euro power, which then runs faster fr sure on the 60Hz grid..
Have to check this out, or maybe another bloke has the answer.

30th October 2004, 01:56 PM	#1
Kofi Annan diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: US	Thorens TD-160 Skipping I'm running out of ideas to fix a problem, so I'm back at well... again. About a month ago, I purchased a Thorens TD-160 from Ebay and installed a Grado Black cartridge. Although the belt is stretched (waiting for a new belt to arrive) and the playback is too fast, it really sounds nice. Unfortunately, every time the tonearm gets near the center of a record, it begins to skip badly. Here's what I tried to do to fix it: * Re-balanced turntable (I'm not very good at this) * Increased / decreased tracking force * Increased / decreased anti-skate * Cursed uncontrollably * Blamed Mrs. Annan Nothing so far has worked. I'm thinking that the belt may have something to do with it, but I'm not sure. Also, its possible (although I hope not) that the tonearm is on its way out. I'm inclined to believe that it has something to do with the tonearm-- maybe the anti-skate is getting on and its being a bit too agressive? Also, it certainly possible that I have screwed up the cartridge mounting-- never had any experience with this, but I was fairly meticulous about it, so I hope its right. Anyway, I'm out of ideas, so if someone could just come to the 33rd floor of the UN building and fix this, or at least offer some advice, I would really appreciate it. Yours in asenine questions, Kofi

31st October 2004, 06:18 AM	#7
planet10 frugal-phile(tm) diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III Blog Entries: 4	i'll 3rd that suggestion... it is also possible that the tonearm has rotated in its mounting (IIRC they can do this).... dave __________________ community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi p10-hifi forum here at diyA

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30th October 2004, 03:50 PM	#2
Carondimonio diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Bern	Hi Kofi, nice to see you around again! I didn' t quite understand your problem; what do you mean by "skipping"? Does the arm jump from one groove to another, or does it repeat the same groove over and over? As far as I understood, your problem happens only when the arm approaches the inner part of the record, right? Did you have this problem right from the start, or did it appear only recently? And, last but not least, if the arm jumps from one groove to another (yes, I know, it' s just a single, spiralled groove...), does it do always in the same direction (that is, always forward or backward) or randomly? Cheers, Bruno

30th October 2004, 04:55 PM	#3
audio-kraut diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: 12km off the alaska highway in northern BC	Dear Mr. Annan, are there not more serious problems you have to attend to? When you balance the toneam neutrally - that means no forces are applied in the vertical (weight) or horizontal position (antiskating), can you then move the tonarm without problems from the outer edge to the inner edge of the arc? My suspicion - a problem that I had wiith similar thorens tonearms: the tonarm wire where it exiits the wire bushing on the bottom of the arm actually exerts a force and you have to make sure the wire is run in a way - somehow a loop - that is is not effecting the tonearm movement. Trial and error only helps here.

30th October 2004, 05:18 PM	#4
AndrewT diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Scottish Borders	Hi kofi, I agree with audio-K. Set both the downforce and antiskate to zero. Arm should hang level with tip just 1mm above the record surface and when you place it anywhere above a track it should stay there. Check for free movement of the arm across the whole width of the tracks. regards Andrew T.

31st October 2004, 01:50 AM	#6
Kofi Annan diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: US	UPDATE I broke the goddamn tonearm wire. Please stop me from killing. Can I fix this or will I have to scorch the tonearm in the all-cleansing fire? Please help me. Please. For the sake of the world. Kofi

31st October 2004, 06:22 AM	#8
audio-kraut diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: 12km off the alaska highway in northern BC	http://www.theanalogdept.com/tp16mkii_rewire.htm - good news first: if you have that arm, it isn't that bad and with some ppatience and a lot of swearing it can be done. If you have the arm with the idiotic stainless steel headshell where the cartridge has to be screwed on from below In this case you can try to remove the plastic connector on the bearing side of the arm after removing the aluminum union (watch that pin) by pushing it with some long blunt instrument (failed screwdriver) inserted from the rear of the arm - HOLD THAT ARM FIRMLY - cut off the old wire about an inch away from the plastic connector and fix new wire to the remainder - carefull soldering and then somehow insulating with the thinnest heatshrink available?? or careful with some electrical tape. The new wire should be pushed into the arm as soon as the old one has been removed - push in from the bottom of the arm mount, and than through the hole in the bootom of the arm tube all the way forward, make sure enough is hanging out on both ends. Watch that you can fit the whole shebang back into the arm, someone carfully pulls the wire back from the mounting end of the arm while the other person pushes in the plastic connector: WATCH THE PIN ORIENTATION of the connector, and then push back on the alum. piece and reinsert the pin that secure both plastic conn. and alum. union. Confused - no problem, just let me know when you are ready to jump

1st November 2004, 11:17 PM	#9
Kofi Annan diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: US	Thanks for the advice, AK. Unfortunately, I have the idiotic-screw-in-from-bottom deal, so it looks like I'll be working on that this coming weekend. So, to add to my frustration, my new belt came today and IT PLAYS EVEN FASTER THAN THE OLD ONE!!! Hey, does this sheot happen to anyone else but me? Anyway, I figured maybe it just needs some time, so I'm currently letting it spin around and around. Is this something that will get better in a few hours / days after it plays for a while or am I just screwed forever? I gots stick to international crisis resolution. Easier on the stomach. Kofi

2nd November 2004, 12:30 AM	#10
audio-kraut diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: 12km off the alaska highway in northern BC	Hi kofi - whre did you get thos turntable from? It sounds to me your pulley ain't the right size. I didn't glue in to your speed problems right away, otherwise I could have told you it is unlikely to be a belt problem. I have my 160 in the attic - waiting for the new tonearm to be installed - which by the way is the one with the proper and not the idiotic headshell - and cannot for the life of me remember if that unit is somehow switchable between 120/220V. Because if that unit has a motor that can operate on both voltages my guess is that your pulley is the one for 50Hz euro power, which then runs faster fr sure on the 60Hz grid.. Have to check this out, or maybe another bloke has the answer.

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