Before anyone asking... Yes! I have read all the other threads I could find, both on this forum and the others I found.
Reading through all this material really raises more questions than giving answers, as quite a lot of the comments introduces new ideas and designs that seems to sum up in "the-ultimate design-to-kill-all-other designs", using materials, tools and machinery that is beyond the reach of 99% of DIYers, unless of course you own a high tech machine shop ( or have a very good friend that accidentally happens to be a mechanic with too few tasks to fill his hours..)
Many years ago, I started building the early "Platine Verdier". I got the motor, the "fancy" bearing metal ( which isn't fancy at all!) and the motor. I even turned the magnetic discs, - but the project halted upon lack of suitable magnets, - I ended up having to buy two large new loudspeakers to bash, just to get the magnets, so I eventually ditched it! There were no internet fora in the 80s to help either!
Then came the "Teres" a few years ago,- a fairly easy and do-able project, - and now the bearing has been ready in my drawer for over a year, and I can't get further, -- all because of some of you guys and your very fancy ideas !
No-- I'm sorry! That is really not my serious opinion!
What I mean is that I am quite sure that there is a lot of us who want to make a very decent turntable that will outperform most of the commercial ones, except maybe a few. - And- I quite seriously don't think that many of the commersial models are as much a result of serious science as is often claimed, as of fairly random doings, or at best good old "guesstimates". What I want you guys in on, is a discussion and selection of techniques and materials that are do-able to most of us, - using at least fairly ordinary materials and machinery, - so here we go:
1.Bearing
Teres or Scheu, ( or Redpoint-as Teres), all inverted, seems to be the only reasonable alternatives
2.Platter
Surfing through models found on the net, there is a hand full of possibilities:
Solids: acrylic, PVC, aluminium,MDF or even laminated hardwoods.
Layered: layered combinations of the above, even in compliance with CLD ...
3. Plinth
MDF, Hardwoods, Plywood, Plaster filled wooden box
additionally: granite, marble, ( any headstone maker will sell a suitable sized slab polished and drilled)
4 Motor
Maxon, ( or Premotec (Philps origin) as used in the early Verdier)
So gentlemen.-- please join me in listing all the reasonable pros and cons.....
Reading through all this material really raises more questions than giving answers, as quite a lot of the comments introduces new ideas and designs that seems to sum up in "the-ultimate design-to-kill-all-other designs", using materials, tools and machinery that is beyond the reach of 99% of DIYers, unless of course you own a high tech machine shop ( or have a very good friend that accidentally happens to be a mechanic with too few tasks to fill his hours..)
Many years ago, I started building the early "Platine Verdier". I got the motor, the "fancy" bearing metal ( which isn't fancy at all!) and the motor. I even turned the magnetic discs, - but the project halted upon lack of suitable magnets, - I ended up having to buy two large new loudspeakers to bash, just to get the magnets, so I eventually ditched it! There were no internet fora in the 80s to help either!
Then came the "Teres" a few years ago,- a fairly easy and do-able project, - and now the bearing has been ready in my drawer for over a year, and I can't get further, -- all because of some of you guys and your very fancy ideas !
No-- I'm sorry! That is really not my serious opinion!
What I mean is that I am quite sure that there is a lot of us who want to make a very decent turntable that will outperform most of the commercial ones, except maybe a few. - And- I quite seriously don't think that many of the commersial models are as much a result of serious science as is often claimed, as of fairly random doings, or at best good old "guesstimates". What I want you guys in on, is a discussion and selection of techniques and materials that are do-able to most of us, - using at least fairly ordinary materials and machinery, - so here we go:
1.Bearing
Teres or Scheu, ( or Redpoint-as Teres), all inverted, seems to be the only reasonable alternatives
2.Platter
Surfing through models found on the net, there is a hand full of possibilities:
Solids: acrylic, PVC, aluminium,MDF or even laminated hardwoods.
Layered: layered combinations of the above, even in compliance with CLD ...
3. Plinth
MDF, Hardwoods, Plywood, Plaster filled wooden box
additionally: granite, marble, ( any headstone maker will sell a suitable sized slab polished and drilled)
4 Motor
Maxon, ( or Premotec (Philps origin) as used in the early Verdier)
So gentlemen.-- please join me in listing all the reasonable pros and cons.....
Hello,
all depends on your tools, of your skill!! If you read my thread, I have make simple, belt sander, drilling machine, easy ways, according to my means, then all depends on you and what you want !
Only the Bearing is built by a mechanic for 40 € (bronze + stainless)
Crouzet is a good manufacturer of engine, often used in High end Turntable (Verdier)
all depends on your tools, of your skill!! If you read my thread, I have make simple, belt sander, drilling machine, easy ways, according to my means, then all depends on you and what you want !
Only the Bearing is built by a mechanic for 40 € (bronze + stainless)
Crouzet is a good manufacturer of engine, often used in High end Turntable (Verdier)
Yes- I followed your thread closely,- it clearly shows one of my points, that is IS possible to get very good results without all the high-tech machinery. Very nice job indeed- congratulation are truly in order!
My intention with this thread was to see if we could have some fairly down-to-earth discussions on the pros and and cons of different materials and combinations thereof, particularly with respect to resonances and the combatting of them. Looks is not a technical term, but it never hurt to look good as well as being a good performer!
( But- as it happens I do have access to a very good workshop, and is probably a fair bit above average for being a hobby machinist and woodworker.......)
My intention with this thread was to see if we could have some fairly down-to-earth discussions on the pros and and cons of different materials and combinations thereof, particularly with respect to resonances and the combatting of them. Looks is not a technical term, but it never hurt to look good as well as being a good performer!
( But- as it happens I do have access to a very good workshop, and is probably a fair bit above average for being a hobby machinist and woodworker.......)
Just do it
I do not pretend to be an expert and judge if this design is realy better than those. The only thing I'm pretty shure about is that there is no substitution for personal experience in DIY. I believe one can only make progress step by step, based on his own tries and errors. In the end, you have to bring all fragments of the puzzle together, making the piece of metal/wood sing (or not). It is very easy to fail, even if you stick with any proven patent.
Do not get me wrong, I'm not saying there are no rules in TT building. The point is how the rules are implemented.
Well, I will try to comment on your list of components, again, from the lesson I've learned from my DIY TT/arm project.
1. Bearing. I use custom made Teres-type bearing, made for me by my friend from aviation industry plant. The overall bearing contact area, which I suppose is important for vibration damping, is 50% larger than Teres (longer and thicker axle). I think consistent viscous friction force of the oil film on large area, which provides constant loading for the motor and good damping, is more important, than "frictionless" bearing. Another remarkable feature of Teres bearing is how deep it is inserted into the platter, to keep the platter center of gravity as close as practical to the center of the bearing contact area, minimizing microscopical platter precession.
2. Platter. My platter is splitted into heavy lead shot loaded subplatter, and upper platter damped by CLD, while the record center pin is decoupled from bearing. The core idea is to provide the long path for LF vibration, induced by stylus, to go away and to be sunken on its way out. Therefore, rigid coupling between parts is a must.
3. Plinth. To me, aluminum/hard plywood sandwich, loaded by lead shoot, is good enough for any DIY project. Again, rigidity and damping is a key. The feets importance is often underestimated by DIY'ers. Do not leave adjustable feet on loose thread without counter nut. The natural frequency of the whole assembly shall be kept high enough by means of stiff and massive connections.
4. Motor. I think Teres motor/controller is next to perfect, but any other appropriate Maxon DC motor and simple LM controller would be cheaper way to go (less convinient though).
5. Stand/shelf. Think of TT stand as an extension of the plinth. Basically, it serves the same purpose, i.e. providing stable support, vibration path and damping. I'm pleased with my sand box with the marble plate on top of it.
Good luck!
I do not pretend to be an expert and judge if this design is realy better than those. The only thing I'm pretty shure about is that there is no substitution for personal experience in DIY. I believe one can only make progress step by step, based on his own tries and errors. In the end, you have to bring all fragments of the puzzle together, making the piece of metal/wood sing (or not). It is very easy to fail, even if you stick with any proven patent.
Do not get me wrong, I'm not saying there are no rules in TT building. The point is how the rules are implemented.
Well, I will try to comment on your list of components, again, from the lesson I've learned from my DIY TT/arm project.
1. Bearing. I use custom made Teres-type bearing, made for me by my friend from aviation industry plant. The overall bearing contact area, which I suppose is important for vibration damping, is 50% larger than Teres (longer and thicker axle). I think consistent viscous friction force of the oil film on large area, which provides constant loading for the motor and good damping, is more important, than "frictionless" bearing. Another remarkable feature of Teres bearing is how deep it is inserted into the platter, to keep the platter center of gravity as close as practical to the center of the bearing contact area, minimizing microscopical platter precession.
2. Platter. My platter is splitted into heavy lead shot loaded subplatter, and upper platter damped by CLD, while the record center pin is decoupled from bearing. The core idea is to provide the long path for LF vibration, induced by stylus, to go away and to be sunken on its way out. Therefore, rigid coupling between parts is a must.
3. Plinth. To me, aluminum/hard plywood sandwich, loaded by lead shoot, is good enough for any DIY project. Again, rigidity and damping is a key. The feets importance is often underestimated by DIY'ers. Do not leave adjustable feet on loose thread without counter nut. The natural frequency of the whole assembly shall be kept high enough by means of stiff and massive connections.
4. Motor. I think Teres motor/controller is next to perfect, but any other appropriate Maxon DC motor and simple LM controller would be cheaper way to go (less convinient though).
5. Stand/shelf. Think of TT stand as an extension of the plinth. Basically, it serves the same purpose, i.e. providing stable support, vibration path and damping. I'm pleased with my sand box with the marble plate on top of it.
Good luck!
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