I need some basic advice about cartridges. I've just sent an RB250 tonearm off to Origin Live for their much-lauded modifications, and when it comes back it will be replacing the RB300 on my Rega Planar 3.
Now I need to choose a new cartridge for it. But here I've come unstuck with the sheer number of models on the market, all with wonderful reviews, so I am hoping for some real advice from more experienced people here.
Unfortunately I can't really afford to spend more than about £300, so that rules out a lot of cost-more-than-my-car options. I was considering the Dynavector DV10x models, but to start at the beginning, I don't even know if I should I be looking at MC or MM. I gather MC is superior, but I've also read in several places that it can sound harder or brighter, and that's something that I particularly have to avoid (old Quad electrostatics, very very revealing and very unforgiving of bright sources).
Another possibility I thought of, looking at its 'great value for money' reviews, is the Goldring 1042, but I've read that you need to adjust the capacitative loading of the cartridge to get the best from it and I wouldn't have any idea how to go about that - just try different size capacitors in the cable to the preamp? -different lengths of cable? Or is that just a very high-end reviewer being more hypercritical than is really necessary?
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks all
Rob
Now I need to choose a new cartridge for it. But here I've come unstuck with the sheer number of models on the market, all with wonderful reviews, so I am hoping for some real advice from more experienced people here.
Unfortunately I can't really afford to spend more than about £300, so that rules out a lot of cost-more-than-my-car options. I was considering the Dynavector DV10x models, but to start at the beginning, I don't even know if I should I be looking at MC or MM. I gather MC is superior, but I've also read in several places that it can sound harder or brighter, and that's something that I particularly have to avoid (old Quad electrostatics, very very revealing and very unforgiving of bright sources).
Another possibility I thought of, looking at its 'great value for money' reviews, is the Goldring 1042, but I've read that you need to adjust the capacitative loading of the cartridge to get the best from it and I wouldn't have any idea how to go about that - just try different size capacitors in the cable to the preamp? -different lengths of cable? Or is that just a very high-end reviewer being more hypercritical than is really necessary?
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks all
Rob
Well cost vs performance wise don't expect miracles with
your modded RB250, especially being mounted on a P3.
Yes it will be be better than the RB300, but VFM the RB300 kills it.
There is one school of thought (which I'm afraid to say I'm
in) that says the RB300 is already far too good for the P3.
And just to get you to understand my attitude a £80 MM in a
Rega arm will murder any cartridge at any cost fitted to an
arm that simply can't compete with the Rega (unmodded).
It goes turntable / arm / cartridge in order of importance in
my book, unless one particular element is particularly awful.
For a P3 chucking money at the arm / cartridge is a waste IMO,
IMO no more than ~ £80 should be spent on the cartridge, the
usual suspects are the Denon DL110 for a high output moving
coil or an exchange Goldring 1012GX, nevertheless the P3 will
make a £23 AT95E sound like it costs at least 3 x the price,
compared to being mounted in an "average" turntable.
IMO you need a new turntable for your new arm.
And since you have a "tuned" arm, the turntable will need tuning
/ modding to its absolute limits to get the best out of the arm,
which would then justify a really serious cartridge IMO.
sreten.
your modded RB250, especially being mounted on a P3.
Yes it will be be better than the RB300, but VFM the RB300 kills it.
There is one school of thought (which I'm afraid to say I'm
in) that says the RB300 is already far too good for the P3.
And just to get you to understand my attitude a £80 MM in a
Rega arm will murder any cartridge at any cost fitted to an
arm that simply can't compete with the Rega (unmodded).
It goes turntable / arm / cartridge in order of importance in
my book, unless one particular element is particularly awful.
For a P3 chucking money at the arm / cartridge is a waste IMO,
IMO no more than ~ £80 should be spent on the cartridge, the
usual suspects are the Denon DL110 for a high output moving
coil or an exchange Goldring 1012GX, nevertheless the P3 will
make a £23 AT95E sound like it costs at least 3 x the price,
compared to being mounted in an "average" turntable.
IMO you need a new turntable for your new arm.
And since you have a "tuned" arm, the turntable will need tuning
/ modding to its absolute limits to get the best out of the arm,
which would then justify a really serious cartridge IMO.
sreten.Re: What a shame...
Crap is hardly the case for Rega's. VTA is not adjustable but
most owners set VTA using spacers, they'd be stupid not to.
sreten.
carlosfm said:...that it's not practical to adjust VTA on Rega arms...
That's why many people have badly adjusted Rega arms/TTs with expensive cartridges and it sounds like crap.
Crap is hardly the case for Rega's. VTA is not adjustable but
most owners set VTA using spacers, they'd be stupid not to.
sreten.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that the Planar 3 is a poor turntable, but it's definitely outclassed by its arm. Since swapping arms apparently doesn't frighten you, perhaps you could consider doing something about the turntable. If you are handy with a jigsaw, you could make a substantial plinth out of layers of 18mm MDF interspersed with 2mm lead flashing (damping and mass). There are various platter/bearing and motor kits available, so perhaps you could design for one of them, but in the meantime graft bits of the Rega onto the new plinth. Just a thought.
The planar 3 is not a poor turntable, and arguably converting
it to a high mass plinth is not a good idea, it would stop being
a P3. I'd leave the P3 standard with its standard arm.
I'm only suggesting a top notch turntable is needed to do
justice to a modded Rega arm, I'd look out for something
like an Ariston RD11S and tune it to the nines.
sreten.
it to a high mass plinth is not a good idea, it would stop being
a P3. I'd leave the P3 standard with its standard arm.
I'm only suggesting a top notch turntable is needed to do
justice to a modded Rega arm, I'd look out for something
like an Ariston RD11S and tune it to the nines.
sreten.
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/oldeworldehtml/aristonturntable.html
5.5Kg (12lb) platter is always going to be a good place to start.
IMO with a new subchassis (home designed / made) and
various other tweaks a killer turntable on the cheap.
sreten.
5.5Kg (12lb) platter is always going to be a good place to start.
IMO with a new subchassis (home designed / made) and
various other tweaks a killer turntable on the cheap.
sreten.
And by selling the Rega, you could probably recover the money needed for the Ariston, leaving the original budget intact for a nice cartridge. Neat.
I've seen a sample of this stuff, and it looks ideal for a subchassis as it's light, pretty rigid, and very well damped:
http://www.baltek.com/balsaonly/products/egbc.html
I've seen a sample of this stuff, and it looks ideal for a subchassis as it's light, pretty rigid, and very well damped:
http://www.baltek.com/balsaonly/products/egbc.html
rob_deas said:
To get back to the original question, some people are very
happy with a top notch MM, e.g. the Goldring 1042 or the
Ortofon 540, performance is essentially flawless and both
are capable of revealing the differences in top notch tables.
My experience of the old Quads suggests that a Grado
might make a good match with the Quads top-end.
Grado's are also completely insensitive to capacitance loading.
In my experience its only been cheap cartridges where
capacitance loading is critical, controlling the inevitable
tip mass resonance that for cheap cartridges is under
20Khz and needs taming not to sound bright / glassy.
For top notch MM's varying capacitance seems to only
have a minor effect and most good MM's work well
with the loading of a decent arm lead and phono input.
MC's IMO you are either a fan of or not, some people rightly
regard them as overegging the pudding, but they do seem
to have a lower noise floor than MM's.
You also need a very good step up device or MC input.
I use a Ortofon MC15 super II in my RB250 / Systemdek IIX,
which I'm very happy with, for that reason I'd recommend
the Ortofon MC25FL (£227) for a modded arm.
At the £300 price point IMO a line contact, not elliptical
tip is mandatory. The LC tip will also last ~ twice as long.
sreten.
1 - Buy a new Shure V15, if you have the money for it, and forget cartridges for many years.
2 - Sreten, believe it or not, there are many people with not finely tuned VTA on Rega arms/TTs.
Adjusting VTA with spacers in anecdotical, but the only way to do it.
Where's the precision here?
Origin Live has a variable VTA mod for the Regas.
3 - No Ariston, buy a used Technics SP10 and put your Rega arm on it.
2 - Sreten, believe it or not, there are many people with not finely tuned VTA on Rega arms/TTs.
Adjusting VTA with spacers in anecdotical, but the only way to do it.
Where's the precision here?
Origin Live has a variable VTA mod for the Regas.
3 - No Ariston, buy a used Technics SP10
and put your Rega arm on it.carlosfm said:
A good option if you like MM's.
Arguably the V15 is overpriced compared to
the 1042, 540 or even the AT440ML, it is IMO.
carlosfm said:2 - Sreten, believe it or not, there are many people with not finely tuned VTA on Rega arms/TTs.
Adjusting VTA with spacers in anecdotical, but the only way to do it.
Where's the precision here?
Origin Live has a variable VTA mod for the Regas.
[/B]
Setting the Rega VTA is part of correctly installing a
Rega arm - though I agree for many P2's and P3's
its never done - though it is near enough with
most cartridges.
There is no real precision - you just get the cartridge
parallel to the record, I used a felt layer between
platter and subplatter to get mine right.
carlosfm said:3 - No Ariston, buy a used Technics SP10
Well I don't know what you've got against the Ariston at its ~ price.
If your a massive DD fan the SP10 is a good choice but costs a lot more.
sreten.I use an MC15II/ RB250 in a tuned and mildly modded Systemdek IIX.
As a DIY person I'd consider rewiring the arm end to end if I
ever did it, and of course it would cost next to nothing to do.
And as far as I understand the counterweight assembly
of the RB300 is much less compromised than the RB250,
(so its spring adjustment gets bashed instead).
What is obvious to me is the cost/performance ratio of the standard
Rega arms unquestionably far exceeds any modded versions of the arms.
Counterweight mods etc I can't comment on as IMO this
also depends on the turntable its mounted on and method
of mounting, drilling and tapping a hole in the RB300
counterweight for a grub screw can't be that difficult
if you want to try a clamped counterweight.
Also my personal opinion is that the MC15 II is a fine match
for the standard Rega in terms of cost versus performance,
I'd be looking at the aluminium bodied MC25FL if I was
trying to extract the ultimate performance from the arm.
sreten.
As a DIY person I'd consider rewiring the arm end to end if I
ever did it, and of course it would cost next to nothing to do.
And as far as I understand the counterweight assembly
of the RB300 is much less compromised than the RB250,
(so its spring adjustment gets bashed instead).
What is obvious to me is the cost/performance ratio of the standard
Rega arms unquestionably far exceeds any modded versions of the arms.
Counterweight mods etc I can't comment on as IMO this
also depends on the turntable its mounted on and method
of mounting, drilling and tapping a hole in the RB300
counterweight for a grub screw can't be that difficult
if you want to try a clamped counterweight.
Also my personal opinion is that the MC15 II is a fine match
for the standard Rega in terms of cost versus performance,
I'd be looking at the aluminium bodied MC25FL if I was
trying to extract the ultimate performance from the arm.
sreten.new cartridge for the modded REGA250
Well, i agree with a lot that has been said and then i dont as well
contary ah!!
You can send lot of cash and get diminishing returns!!! thats why we tweak and DIY!!!
But the rega Plinth is very simple just a sheet of MDF!!! and it works well ,but i suspect that the plinth is the limiting factor!!
So, keeping the old one and building a new one, ie like some of the suggestions, that have been posted is a cheap way to go.
I agree, with was it streten, the REGA arm because of its ridgidity
will make a low priced MM sound good. What you could do is go over to EBAY and keep an eye out for Good quality moving magnets they are often cheap, often sold used or without stylii
I curently run a Humble excel sound es-70 cartridge, cost nothing
but they made one body and a higher up model just has better stylus so now i have an ES-70x4 with a shibata for about $30 australian sounds very nice. I have heard expensive cartridges,
that sound ordinary!!! look out for used Audio Technicas, Shures,
Empires, Stantons, Pickerings ,Grados a good place to check out what has a line contact stylii is Canadian ASTATIC(they have a website)
Do, this and build a massive Plinth like MDF and Lead and it wont cost much andgive you a lot of listening pleasure then you can take your time with, a much better turntable!!!
Good Luck
Well, i agree with a lot that has been said and then i dont as well
contary ah!!
You can send lot of cash and get diminishing returns!!! thats why we tweak and DIY!!!
But the rega Plinth is very simple just a sheet of MDF!!! and it works well ,but i suspect that the plinth is the limiting factor!!
So, keeping the old one and building a new one, ie like some of the suggestions, that have been posted is a cheap way to go.
I agree, with was it streten, the REGA arm because of its ridgidity
will make a low priced MM sound good. What you could do is go over to EBAY and keep an eye out for Good quality moving magnets they are often cheap, often sold used or without stylii
I curently run a Humble excel sound es-70 cartridge, cost nothing
but they made one body and a higher up model just has better stylus so now i have an ES-70x4 with a shibata for about $30 australian sounds very nice. I have heard expensive cartridges,
that sound ordinary!!! look out for used Audio Technicas, Shures,
Empires, Stantons, Pickerings ,Grados a good place to check out what has a line contact stylii is Canadian ASTATIC(they have a website)
Do, this and build a massive Plinth like MDF and Lead and it wont cost much andgive you a lot of listening pleasure then you can take your time with, a much better turntable!!!
Good Luck
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