I have a Denon DP-30L and a 30L II turntable. They both work well. I recently bought the 30L II turntable because it was cheap (~$40 USD with two cartridges) and I thought it might be a great source of spare parts for my 30L or vice versa, depending on which one I like better.
I've done a bunch of searching but have not been able to find documentation of anyone having done much in the way of modifying/upgrading these turntables to try and improve their performance and I'm thinking someone should experiment with this. I have an Anthem CD-1 CD player and it saw a HUGE improvement simply by replacing 5 caps along the signal path with some modern day audio quality caps. I don't know if you could do something similar in a turntable but if I could find a way to improve the already decent performance of the DP-30L by half as much as re-capping my Anthem, it would be well worth the effort and expense.
Despite being lower down in the line, the DP-30L was a solid performer boasting very good specs and pretty decent quality sound for the dollar. Higher end Denon decks are expensive on the used market and well sought after. The DB-30Ls and 30L IIs are often overlooked by audiophiles and are still relatively plentiful and easy to find cheap on the market. Well, I'm wondering if much could be done in the way of modification that could make them noticibly better? I've got two of them which are different in tone arm only so why not try modifying one to see how much better it can be made in comparison to the other for a modest sum of money? Maybe we could learn something of value here. Or maybe not.
We all know that swapping in a much better cartridge and improving the vibration isolation for the turntable as a whole will help a lot so let's call that understood. I'm looking for ways of improving this turntable that go beyond that so that we might be able to take this lurking diamond in the rough into something that's more of a diamond - if that's possible.
I'm interested to know what the experts on this forum think I should do to mod/tweak a DP-30L but here's what I'm thinking:
1. Remove the flimsy built-in patch cord and replace it with a set of decent quality RCA jacks on the back of the turntable so a higher quality patch cable can be used. When doing this I would try to self ground the turntable internally so there are no grounding issues present after the mod.
2. I don't know if this applies at all to turntables but if it does, what about replacing any capacitors along the signal path with better modern audio grade ones? Here's where I really need help. I'm not an electrical engineer or technician so I'm not real good at reading schematic diagrams. Attached is the service manual for the DP-30L which contains schematics. Can someone please help me identify which caps I should look at replacing if there are any along the signal path?
I've heard Dayton caps are pretty good for the price so I thought I'd try using some of their 1% tolerance caps but if you would strongly suggest some other brand, please do. Bear in mind, I'm trying to do this on a budget so I'm not going to want to spend big coin on some super high-end boutique capacitors.
3. I'm also thinking I should try gluing some vibration dampening material wherever I can inside the plastic chassis so as to eliminate internal vibrations as much as possible.
Do you agree or disagree with any of the items on this list? Why? What would you add to or remove from the list?
I've done a bunch of searching but have not been able to find documentation of anyone having done much in the way of modifying/upgrading these turntables to try and improve their performance and I'm thinking someone should experiment with this. I have an Anthem CD-1 CD player and it saw a HUGE improvement simply by replacing 5 caps along the signal path with some modern day audio quality caps. I don't know if you could do something similar in a turntable but if I could find a way to improve the already decent performance of the DP-30L by half as much as re-capping my Anthem, it would be well worth the effort and expense.
Despite being lower down in the line, the DP-30L was a solid performer boasting very good specs and pretty decent quality sound for the dollar. Higher end Denon decks are expensive on the used market and well sought after. The DB-30Ls and 30L IIs are often overlooked by audiophiles and are still relatively plentiful and easy to find cheap on the market. Well, I'm wondering if much could be done in the way of modification that could make them noticibly better? I've got two of them which are different in tone arm only so why not try modifying one to see how much better it can be made in comparison to the other for a modest sum of money? Maybe we could learn something of value here. Or maybe not.
We all know that swapping in a much better cartridge and improving the vibration isolation for the turntable as a whole will help a lot so let's call that understood. I'm looking for ways of improving this turntable that go beyond that so that we might be able to take this lurking diamond in the rough into something that's more of a diamond - if that's possible.
I'm interested to know what the experts on this forum think I should do to mod/tweak a DP-30L but here's what I'm thinking:
1. Remove the flimsy built-in patch cord and replace it with a set of decent quality RCA jacks on the back of the turntable so a higher quality patch cable can be used. When doing this I would try to self ground the turntable internally so there are no grounding issues present after the mod.
2. I don't know if this applies at all to turntables but if it does, what about replacing any capacitors along the signal path with better modern audio grade ones? Here's where I really need help. I'm not an electrical engineer or technician so I'm not real good at reading schematic diagrams. Attached is the service manual for the DP-30L which contains schematics. Can someone please help me identify which caps I should look at replacing if there are any along the signal path?
I've heard Dayton caps are pretty good for the price so I thought I'd try using some of their 1% tolerance caps but if you would strongly suggest some other brand, please do. Bear in mind, I'm trying to do this on a budget so I'm not going to want to spend big coin on some super high-end boutique capacitors.
3. I'm also thinking I should try gluing some vibration dampening material wherever I can inside the plastic chassis so as to eliminate internal vibrations as much as possible.
Do you agree or disagree with any of the items on this list? Why? What would you add to or remove from the list?
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After examining the pictures I've attached I could see there are no caps along the signal path but thanks for pointing that out anyways.
I'm not suggesting adding another pair of RCAs, I'm suggesting removing the cheap hard wired RCA cable and replacing it with a decent pair of RCA jacks so that a much better pair of patch cables can be used instead. I realize that won't make a monumental difference to the quality of the output but it's got to help a little. The built-in RCA cables are pretty cheap and crappy...
Attached are photos of the internals of the DP-30L courtesy of LIQUID AUDIO - Cherishing Classic Audio.
Attachments
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It's true I could replace the cable with something much better by soldering it straight onto that PCB but at the same time I could remove the cable and patch in a short set of wires from the pickup PCB board to an RCA jack placed somewhere on the back. It all pretty much amounts to the same thing except doing the latter option would give me the flexibility of using different length and quality cables because the cables are not hardwired in.
In looking at those photos I'm seeing lots of places where vibration dampening material could be glued onto the underside of the top deck. Might that be a worthwhile endeavor?
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Yes you can. I doubt you can find any improvement in doin' that.
Like dampening of the plastic shell.
Well, in front of me I have a Micro MR 711 that weights a ton
I realize that after a point, using more and more elaborate patch and speaker cables doesn't yield very much improved results but just going from the crappy old stock built-in RCA cables to something halfway decent by today's standards like these $20 USD/pair Chinese made cables on eBay should yield a bit of a difference. Admittedly, it probably won't be a big difference but there should be SOME difference.
The sound deadening idea may be worth pursuing, however.
I've been reading a few VERY interesting and informative threads on sound dampening in turntables on VinylEngine.com. There's a gentleman there who has done a TON of very rigorous scientific testing on various sound dampening products and methods which has produced some VERY interesting results.
Thread 1
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=76496
Thread 2
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=79660
Thread 3
Sub-platter upgrade for Debut Carbon - Vinyl Engine
Thread 4
to dynamat or not - Vinyl Engine
Based on his rigorous testing, I'm definitely thinking of ordering a quantity of KnuKonceptz Kolossus 100 ml Kno Knoise sound deadening mat and applying that to numerous other places inside the plastic shell and on the inside of base of the turntable. That should help quieten any vibrations in the plastic shell noticeably and hopefully improve the sound.
If anyone else has any ideas to contribute, I'd like to hear them.
I'll be interested in testing to see if I can hear any differences between my two turntables after I get through modifying one of them.
The sound deadening idea may be worth pursuing, however.
I've been reading a few VERY interesting and informative threads on sound dampening in turntables on VinylEngine.com. There's a gentleman there who has done a TON of very rigorous scientific testing on various sound dampening products and methods which has produced some VERY interesting results.
Thread 1
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=76496
Thread 2
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=79660
Thread 3
Sub-platter upgrade for Debut Carbon - Vinyl Engine
Thread 4
to dynamat or not - Vinyl Engine
Based on his rigorous testing, I'm definitely thinking of ordering a quantity of KnuKonceptz Kolossus 100 ml Kno Knoise sound deadening mat and applying that to numerous other places inside the plastic shell and on the inside of base of the turntable. That should help quieten any vibrations in the plastic shell noticeably and hopefully improve the sound.
If anyone else has any ideas to contribute, I'd like to hear them.
I'll be interested in testing to see if I can hear any differences between my two turntables after I get through modifying one of them.
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Have a look at Toostubborn2fail's postings, particularly on Thread 1 but on the other threads as well. There are a bunch of icons there that take you to photographs on Photobucket. You'll see a bunch of detailed test graphs plus pictures of his very elaborate test equipment. You'll also find an explanation of his very controlled test methods. I think the guy has got a better handle than anyone on what constrained layer dampening materials are most effective and how effective they really are.
Re: Sub-platter upgrade for Debut Carbon
Postby TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL » 14 Jan 2016 15:14
Ok, so just to update this, I don't think there is any reason to build a new subplatter unless a bearing upgrade is part of it.
Well, at least he is smart enough to admit that the project has to be taken as a whole.
That phrase can be used with substituded words and still work.
i.e.
"I don't think there is any reason to put a deading mat unless an....upgrade is part of it." ( dunno what to substitute for bearing)
Let's try again
"I don't think there is any reason to put new cable/connector unless a phono preamp upgrade is part of it."
Hmmm...still doesn't sound good
"I don't think there is any reason to build a new turntable unless profound studies about the problems affecting turntables and the solutions for making it upgrade is part of it."
Postby TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL » 14 Jan 2016 15:14
Ok, so just to update this, I don't think there is any reason to build a new subplatter unless a bearing upgrade is part of it.
Well, at least he is smart enough to admit that the project has to be taken as a whole.
That phrase can be used with substituded words and still work.
i.e.
"I don't think there is any reason to put a deading mat unless an....upgrade is part of it." ( dunno what to substitute for bearing)
Let's try again
"I don't think there is any reason to put new cable/connector unless a phono preamp upgrade is part of it."
Hmmm...still doesn't sound good
"I don't think there is any reason to build a new turntable unless profound studies about the problems affecting turntables and the solutions for making it upgrade is part of it."
Okay, I goofed big time on those links to those discussion threads on my previous posting. It was really late when I made that post so I must've been tired. Sorry about that. Here they are corrected.
Thread 1
Turntable Damping Results - Vinyl Engine
Thread 2
Debut Carbon USB Upgrades - Vinyl Engine
Thread 3
Sub-platter upgrade for Debut Carbon - Vinyl Engine
Thread 4
to dynamat or not - Vinyl Engine
Thread 1
Turntable Damping Results - Vinyl Engine
Thread 2
Debut Carbon USB Upgrades - Vinyl Engine
Thread 3
Sub-platter upgrade for Debut Carbon - Vinyl Engine
Thread 4
to dynamat or not - Vinyl Engine
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