Congratulations! Is it SP10 mkII ? What year?
Apart for the cartridge, there is no way such a good TT is good for pop/ not so good for classic.
If you are after EMTs, keep your eyes open for TELEFUNKEN PS81DD.
George
Yes - when one works it out, IMO the only way that is even vaguely possible is if the cantilever flexes, or in transmission line terms the cantilever presents a low mechanical impedance to movement of the stylus.
The S-120 doesn't look like it has a flexible cantilever though....but the devil's in the detail of cross section and length I suppose. It is a short and fat tube.........IIRC I measured the mechanical top resonance to be about 18-20kHz, but with a low Q.
LD
In searching around for some data points today I came across this Phono cartridge Reviews | HiFi classic. Now the reviews are all from the early 80s and very Shure biased, but they give a fairly thorough (for a hifi mag) measurement methodology and list exactly which test records they used. I've scanned the few that are of interest to me and noted the following.
1. The V15V whilst having spectacularly low distortion and HF tracking is actually only average on LF tracking at 70um
2. The Ortofon 540 (which lives on as the music hall mojo) which I assume is basically a super OM40 in a different case actually tracks 110um at 315Hz.
3. The AT-155LC (the Be tube version) was +/-1dB from 1kHz to 40kHz
Now on point 3 I can believe that as the boron grandson AT-150MLx will play CD4 records, but it does require some consideration from the transmission line theory as that would predict a peak and trough before 40kHz normally?
This certainly gives me a couple of things to test down the line, but wondered if you have tested the stylus 40 on LF lateral tracking and concur with the measurements given?
1. The V15V whilst having spectacularly low distortion and HF tracking is actually only average on LF tracking at 70um
2. The Ortofon 540 (which lives on as the music hall mojo) which I assume is basically a super OM40 in a different case actually tracks 110um at 315Hz.
3. The AT-155LC (the Be tube version) was +/-1dB from 1kHz to 40kHz
Now on point 3 I can believe that as the boron grandson AT-150MLx will play CD4 records, but it does require some consideration from the transmission line theory as that would predict a peak and trough before 40kHz normally?
This certainly gives me a couple of things to test down the line, but wondered if you have tested the stylus 40 on LF lateral tracking and concur with the measurements given?
Was this the AT review Bill?
Audio-Technics AT155LC Phono cartridge Review price specs - Hi-Fi Classic
Audio-Technics AT155LC Phono cartridge Review price specs - Hi-Fi Classic
Just to come back to my Ortfon story. If you recall, I managed to pull out one of the pins on my Ortfon Black cart. Not repairable according to them and the local distributor would not sell me a cart less the stylus (Shibata - about £275)
Anyway, on billshurv's advice, I have been using the Black stylus on my Ortfon Red cart to great effect for the last ~2 months with no problems as far as I can tell. I am using a tracking force of about 2g
I was going to fit my AT95E, but looks like the 'cheat' is an altogether better solution unless one of the experts here has a different view - would be very appreciative of your opinions (I can design RIAA amps, but am way out of my depth on pickup mechanics/dynamics)
Anyway, on billshurv's advice, I have been using the Black stylus on my Ortfon Red cart to great effect for the last ~2 months with no problems as far as I can tell. I am using a tracking force of about 2g
I was going to fit my AT95E, but looks like the 'cheat' is an altogether better solution unless one of the experts here has a different view - would be very appreciative of your opinions (I can design RIAA amps, but am way out of my depth on pickup mechanics/dynamics)
I reckon you are fine. The generator differences are minimal and possibly inaudible. Certainly ortofon have never really published the difference so I think you would be fine forever.
Checking specs the black is trick plastic and 10% fewer windings (with silver plated wire). Not worth the bother IMO.
Checking specs the black is trick plastic and 10% fewer windings (with silver plated wire). Not worth the bother IMO.
Good - I suspected as much - a conductor is a conductor is a conductorI listen to a lot of classical music - I am amazed at how 'organic' the strings sound - wonderfully euphonic with absolutely none of the glare that I can detect on a lot of recordings. I've got a DG recording of Swan Lake/Sleeping Beauty that I 're-bought' again about 4 months ago - I got the original in about 1981 and it was clapped out.
Well turns out my soldering is very rusty but the build is ongoing. As this is the first one I'm trying to match as closely as I can and it's slow progress. I've also realised that this circuit could really use some CMR. STD pro approach is the cross-coupled output which appears to have been discovered back in 1980 Cross-coupled output stages for balanced audio interfaces | EE Times and Scott used in an app idea in 1982 http://www.waynekirkwood.com/images..._Noise_Wurcer_Kitchin_EDN_October_13_1982.pdf. Std approaches to this would be a couple of THAT1240s as they are available through hole or the rather nice THAT1606, which is sadly sm only http://www.thatcorp.com/datashts/THAT_1606-1646_Datasheet.pdf. It's moot until I start running 30 foot interconnects but would be a nice adjunct at some point.
I've also been mulling over some of the snippets of information that need testing, in particular if the ultra-light moving mass cartridges really are flat as far up as was claimed. I'll have to score an ortofon test record with its 800-50kHz sweep. I'll be able to compare my Benz MC with the ortofon and AT150 but sadly looking around on ebay the hollow Boron models are rare as hens teeth. If anyone knows anyone who has an EPC-205Mk3 that needs a retip they would be willing to part with for not silly money let me know as would love to see how that performs at HF. Pic below is from the manual for that cartridge which has an interesting marketing graph.
Now of course being a marketing graph it's missing usable log scales, but with the power of paint you can see the peaks are at 45KHz, 60KHz and 85KHz. This is around double that originally predicted earlier in this thread by a transmission line model but given Technics were kings of ultralow effective mass I am happy to consider that they were considering about half the mass of current production solutions. Something to ponder. I've also headed down a rabbit hole on stylus profiles, but I think that warrants a new thread,which I am planning. Not sure I will get to the bottom of why many people prefer the OM30 over the OM40 but we can try
I've also been mulling over some of the snippets of information that need testing, in particular if the ultra-light moving mass cartridges really are flat as far up as was claimed. I'll have to score an ortofon test record with its 800-50kHz sweep. I'll be able to compare my Benz MC with the ortofon and AT150 but sadly looking around on ebay the hollow Boron models are rare as hens teeth. If anyone knows anyone who has an EPC-205Mk3 that needs a retip they would be willing to part with for not silly money let me know as would love to see how that performs at HF. Pic below is from the manual for that cartridge which has an interesting marketing graph.
Now of course being a marketing graph it's missing usable log scales, but with the power of paint you can see the peaks are at 45KHz, 60KHz and 85KHz. This is around double that originally predicted earlier in this thread by a transmission line model but given Technics were kings of ultralow effective mass I am happy to consider that they were considering about half the mass of current production solutions. Something to ponder. I've also headed down a rabbit hole on stylus profiles, but I think that warrants a new thread,which I am planning. Not sure I will get to the bottom of why many people prefer the OM30 over the OM40 but we can try
Attachments
Well, I have been lurking this thread for some time as I have an old Thorens TD320 I want to get going again and play my old records. I have been looking at various MM cartridges. Being from Denmark I should of course use Ortofon cartridges. But, looking at various measurements in the magazine HiFi-World, I have been somewhat attracted to the Goldring 912 or 942. The later being somewhat expensive. They seem to reproduce with very little difference in frequency response between outer- and inner grove.
Many expensive cartridges show very large difference.
Any of you guys have any experience with the Goldring MMs?
Mogens
Many expensive cartridges show very large difference.
Any of you guys have any experience with the Goldring MMs?
Mogens
To my eternal embarrassment I have no experience with Goldring despite their being the only real 'in house' uk supplier of cartridges. Once I am bored of ortofon and AT I have my A&R P77 to investigate.
The Ortofon are pretty good, affordable and have a huge range of stylii available. What's not to like? FR should not change for any functional cartridge across the record. Where are you seeing that reported?
The Ortofon are pretty good, affordable and have a huge range of stylii available. What's not to like? FR should not change for any functional cartridge across the record. Where are you seeing that reported?
Ortofons are likely fine. The Goldring measurement I have in the magazine. Let me see if I can dig out the scanner. Until then you can perhaps have a look at these measurements. You miggt have to click "next" in bottom of the page on each individual test. Let me know if you can't find them.
Cartridge reviews
Cheers,
Mogens
Cartridge reviews
Cheers,
Mogens
I had to change browser to view those pages. I have no idea why hifiworld is firefox incompatible, but there you go. A slightly limited set of measurements and not much on the test methodology. Now putting aside the fact that I have never got on with NK as a reviewer, I am not 100% sure about their reasons for different FR inner and outer grooves TBH as we've more or less destroyed pinch effect on this thread. But if all their tests were on the same test record there might be something we can infer...
In terms of distortion I found this plot LD put up a couple of years ago.
In terms of distortion I found this plot LD put up a couple of years ago.
Attachments
Piqued that I hadn't heared of the 912 or 942 I had a look, and I think you mean 1012/1042. Now the 1042 has a Gyger S stylus so is similar to the OM40/Black and the 1012 is Gyger2 so OM30/bronze equivalent.
(note on paper the Gyger S is better than the FG70 ortofon use, but I suspect at the high end there is less difference than the manufacturers would have you think, but this is why I am mulling a separate stylus thread).
(note on paper the Gyger S is better than the FG70 ortofon use, but I suspect at the high end there is less difference than the manufacturers would have you think, but this is why I am mulling a separate stylus thread).
You are right, 1012 and 1042. My bad.
I don't know about the quality of the HiFi-World measurements. At least they make and show measurements. Interestingly a lot of the MCs show rising tope-end when playing the outer-groove and almost flat when playing the inner. Makes one wonder.
The OM40 do look nice. I had an OM30 in the 80's, which probably wasn't matched correctly with capacitance. I had a Mørch UP-4 at that time. Regret deeply that I sold the Mørch arm. Oh well. Switched to MC's as we all know MCs are better from reading hifi magazines
.I will get the scanner out today and see if I can't get it working. Haven't been used in a long time.
Mogens