the right stylus/cartridge

solonbro · 7th March 2004, 07:12 PM

I need some help here. My dad is a technofreak, so I've inherited his turntables. One is a Philips 212 hi-fi, which is great looking but definitely no good, and the other is a Pioneer PL-51A. And it's this Pioneer I'd like to use.

Its original cartridge is a Shure V15 Type III. The stylus broke some decades ago. We tried a replacement stylus, the Vn35E made by a swiss company, but the sound was terrible. Eventually we switched to a brazilian cartridge (namely a Leson Axxis, with an Axxis IV-x hyper-elliptical low-mass stylus which I'm sure no one's ever heard of). The sound is decent, but no big deal.

I've read lots about the Shure cartridge, and was led to believe it is useless nowadays, for its rubber would have dried out after three plus decades. If that's the case, I guess it would explain the terrible sound of the replacement stylus.

On the other hand, I can't seem to find informations about the Pioneer TT.

What I really would like to know is:

1) Is my Shure cartridge really useless? I'm no expert, obviously, but it looks in perfect condition to me.

2) Is my Pioneer TT any good? I'm sure it was good when it was bought, but I wonder whether it deserves all the trouble.

3) Finally, if the TT is indeed good, which cartridge/stylus should I look into?

I don't know any arm specifications or things of that sort, but I can find out. And I'm thinking of spending 150-200 USD tops.

If anyone can give me some advice, or directions to further reading on the subject, I'd be grateful. Also, any more information needed that I've left out, just ask. I can also take some pictures of both the TT and the cartridge, if it's any good.

ingvar ahlberg · 7th March 2004, 10:00 PM

Both players are good, the Pioneer easier to use.
The perfect cartridge for the Pioneer would be a Grado Black or Audio-Technica AT95E , both far below 100 US$.
The PL51 is sensitive to acoustic feedback, so try to place it on a wallshelf or a light, rigid separate table.

sreten · 8th March 2004, 11:26 AM

The Philips 312 / 212 would really need a rebuild and an arm
transplant to really sing IMO. I have rebuilt two in the past,
one I fitted a Connoisseur arm, the other a Formula 4.

Note a standard length arm cannot be fitted, the 4 was shortened.

Manual is availabe here :

http://www.nakedresource.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=1778

Regarding the Shure cartridge, there is no rubber in the body
to dry out, but it would be a problem with a NOS stylus.

I can't find any info on the Pioneer, but the old standard S
shaped headshell Japanese arms are not worth fitting an
expensive cartridge to, they limit performance far too much.

An Audio Technica AT95E / AT110E is a good choice.

The Grado Black will work, though not ideally
matched to the mass of the Pioneer arm.

sreten.

solonbro · 8th March 2004, 03:23 PM

> Regarding the Shure cartridge, there is no rubber in the body
> to dry out, but it would be a problem with a NOS stylus.

Does the Shure VN35MR fit the old V15 Type III?

> I can't find any info on the Pioneer, but the old standard S
> shaped headshell Japanese arms are not worth fitting an
> expensive cartridge to, they limit performance far too much.

The manual has been lost over the years, but the arm certainly is S shaped. But considering I already have the Shure, wouldn't it be better to just replace its stylus, other than buying a new cartridge?

And I might consider changing its arm, I just don't think I have the necessary skills to do it.

solonbro · 8th March 2004, 03:58 PM

here's the Pioneer:

solonbro · 8th March 2004, 04:13 PM

let me try again:

solonbro · 8th March 2004, 04:47 PM

bollocks. sorry 'bout that.

solonbro · 8th March 2004, 06:06 PM

this oughta work

solonbro · 8th March 2004, 06:21 PM

sorry about all the useless posts. took me a while getting used to the thing. it's unfortunate I can't edit my posts. but, to end the thing, here's a picture of my PL-51A with the Shure cartridge:

sreten · 8th March 2004, 06:40 PM

Nice to see a pic of it though you link doesn't work.
(get a not authorised page)

The arm looks similar to the one fitted to the Pioneer
PL12D and is a limiting factor in subtlety, so basically
its not worth fitting anything too flash.

An arm transplant is required to use a very good cartridge.

sreten.

7th March 2004, 07:12 PM	#1
solonbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Porto Alegre	the right stylus/cartridge I need some help here. My dad is a technofreak, so I've inherited his turntables. One is a Philips 212 hi-fi, which is great looking but definitely no good, and the other is a Pioneer PL-51A. And it's this Pioneer I'd like to use. Its original cartridge is a Shure V15 Type III. The stylus broke some decades ago. We tried a replacement stylus, the Vn35E made by a swiss company, but the sound was terrible. Eventually we switched to a brazilian cartridge (namely a Leson Axxis, with an Axxis IV-x hyper-elliptical low-mass stylus which I'm sure no one's ever heard of). The sound is decent, but no big deal. I've read lots about the Shure cartridge, and was led to believe it is useless nowadays, for its rubber would have dried out after three plus decades. If that's the case, I guess it would explain the terrible sound of the replacement stylus. On the other hand, I can't seem to find informations about the Pioneer TT. What I really would like to know is: 1) Is my Shure cartridge really useless? I'm no expert, obviously, but it looks in perfect condition to me. 2) Is my Pioneer TT any good? I'm sure it was good when it was bought, but I wonder whether it deserves all the trouble. 3) Finally, if the TT is indeed good, which cartridge/stylus should I look into? I don't know any arm specifications or things of that sort, but I can find out. And I'm thinking of spending 150-200 USD tops. If anyone can give me some advice, or directions to further reading on the subject, I'd be grateful. Also, any more information needed that I've left out, just ask. I can also take some pictures of both the TT and the cartridge, if it's any good.

7th March 2004, 10:00 PM	#2
ingvar ahlberg diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kungsbacka on the Swedish westcoast	Both players are good, the Pioneer easier to use. The perfect cartridge for the Pioneer would be a Grado Black or Audio-Technica AT95E , both far below 100 US$. The PL51 is sensitive to acoustic feedback, so try to place it on a wallshelf or a light, rigid separate table. __________________ Ingvar

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8th March 2004, 11:26 AM	#3
sreten diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brighton UK	The Philips 312 / 212 would really need a rebuild and an arm transplant to really sing IMO. I have rebuilt two in the past, one I fitted a Connoisseur arm, the other a Formula 4. Note a standard length arm cannot be fitted, the 4 was shortened. Manual is availabe here : http://www.nakedresource.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=1778 Regarding the Shure cartridge, there is no rubber in the body to dry out, but it would be a problem with a NOS stylus. I can't find any info on the Pioneer, but the old standard S shaped headshell Japanese arms are not worth fitting an expensive cartridge to, they limit performance far too much. An Audio Technica AT95E / AT110E is a good choice. The Grado Black will work, though not ideally matched to the mass of the Pioneer arm. sreten.

8th March 2004, 03:23 PM	#4
solonbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Porto Alegre	> Regarding the Shure cartridge, there is no rubber in the body > to dry out, but it would be a problem with a NOS stylus. Does the Shure VN35MR fit the old V15 Type III? > I can't find any info on the Pioneer, but the old standard S > shaped headshell Japanese arms are not worth fitting an > expensive cartridge to, they limit performance far too much. The manual has been lost over the years, but the arm certainly is S shaped. But considering I already have the Shure, wouldn't it be better to just replace its stylus, other than buying a new cartridge? And I might consider changing its arm, I just don't think I have the necessary skills to do it.

8th March 2004, 03:58 PM	#5
solonbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Porto Alegre	here's the Pioneer:

8th March 2004, 04:47 PM	#7
solonbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Porto Alegre	bollocks. sorry 'bout that.

8th March 2004, 06:06 PM	#8
solonbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Porto Alegre	this oughta work

8th March 2004, 06:21 PM	#9
solonbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Porto Alegre	sorry about all the useless posts. took me a while getting used to the thing. it's unfortunate I can't edit my posts. but, to end the thing, here's a picture of my PL-51A with the Shure cartridge:

8th March 2004, 06:40 PM	#10
sreten diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brighton UK	Nice to see a pic of it though you link doesn't work. (get a not authorised page) The arm looks similar to the one fitted to the Pioneer PL12D and is a limiting factor in subtlety, so basically its not worth fitting anything too flash. An arm transplant is required to use a very good cartridge. sreten.

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