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Old 27th March 2002, 04:12 PM   #1
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Default more uplifting than church, but I'd still appreciate an analogue forum!

I remain humbled and honoured to join in this group. The more I learn about audio technology, the more I'm aware of my ignorance, and yet, I am drawn to this, technical simpleton that I am. One thing I can say is that I have encountered very little "snobbery," and in fact, I've found much encourgement in this area. It's much more uplifting than church ever was!

I would like to add my voice to the growing plea for a TT/anologue forum, as this is the scene I really like to wallow in.

PS: I'm doing some experimenting with a dry lubricant (particles less than a micron) as part of a formulation for a vinyl restorative treatment. This is an extemely contentious issue (can I say heretical?), I know, but many of us have treasured (and often irreplaceable) LPs with pops and other surface noises. We all know that this is not always due to the mistreatment of records. I opened a sealed Seraphim label (pressed in the USA) last night and was dismayed to find grime (and under the microscope patches of abrasion and scratches in the run-in!) My God! Is quality control too much to expect?

I have not found a definitive answer on the isopropyl vs. ethyl (ethanol) discussion. The police use the latter, full strength, in their fingerprinting process, but I cannot buy it from the Liquor Control Board of Ontario without, get this, a doctor's note!
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Old 28th March 2002, 12:48 PM   #2
dice45 is offline dice45  Germany
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Quote:
I would like to add my voice to the growing plea for a TT/anologue forum, as this is the scene I really like to wallow in.


Yes, Ron, so do i <sigh> and i am not the only one. Just a day ago or 2, SemperFi made a similar remark.

Maybe Jason reads this and decides to install the new board before his next software update ...



Let's hope the TT/analogue forum board comes soon!



And keep us updated with your insidious graphite or MoS2 powder treatment of innocent vinyls ... i haven't dared to do so myself ut would be eager to learn more about it!
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Bernhard
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Old 28th March 2002, 12:49 PM   #3
dice45 is offline dice45  Germany
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Before i forget it, Ron,
1µm particle size still is big, the stylus resolves nm sizes.
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Bernhard
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Old 28th March 2002, 01:09 PM   #4
Jason is offline Jason  Australia
:)
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I really don't have the time to check in to the forums more than about once a week at the moment - please don't hesitate to hassle me via email if there is anything you need attending to.

I'm blocking off some time over easter to attend to 'non work' stuff - creating new forums and posting the survey will be one thing I will get around to!
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Old 28th March 2002, 03:28 PM   #5
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Default dry lube

Bernhard,

I was toiling late into the night on my insidious experimentation with my mysterious dry lubricant.

Subjects chosen were "Selling England by the Pound," and "Eldorado," two survivors of the 70s -- and Chuck, housemate and drummer. The condition of these were not up to audiophile standard, to say the least. I had cleaned them out of curiosity, to hear what really clean scratchy records sound like, and I wasn't impressed.

I'm not a true fan of the genre, but Genesis never sounded worse, and I couldn't stand more than a couple minutes, out of respect for my cartridge! Likewise with Eldorado, though it brought back memories of some truly amazing audiophile moments with that recording, including my first encounter with ELO on ESLs!

Anyway, first with Selling England, I applied said lube (minute quantity in water suspension) with pump spray. then working it into the surface with clean fibre cloth. At first it looked like paste wax on linoleum, but gradually as it dried, it took on a dull grey finish, sort of like, well, dry wax. This is not a very pleasant image, I admit, but I kept working it in till dry, and then, with my best fibre brush got it ready for my turntable, which was quaking with horror in the corner.

Immediately I heard improvement: not only were the lesser pops gone, but the painfully obvious surface noise had vanished!!... well no, not quite vanished, but nearly so!! In fact, a minute into the record, I could hear a substantial sonic improvement, with great detail and expanded stage. By now, the grey background had turned black! Then the needle became gunged and required immediate attention. My microscope showed that a light brushing was sufficient to remove the ball of what looked like metallic alien innards. Back to the beginning of the record -- it sounded even better than the first time, and this time I got almost half-way through it before the needle needed degunging. I had to degunge three times, but after the 2nd play, the needle was pristine. I'm not sure where that gunge was from, but it appears the dry lube collects (attracts?) dust particles, at least initially, requiring full-time vigilance.

I have to say again how impressed I am with my AT440. Really, this is an impressive and cheap MM, and I repect it too much to abuse it. Therefore, I'm being really careful.

Bernhard, I'll write more about this lubricant, which is not, I repeat, not graphite! It is, yes, that other stuff, a super-fine lab grade that took me forever to find and is guaranteed .75 micron. I assure you this stuff is tiny tiny tiny!

Have a Good weekend.
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Old 28th March 2002, 04:20 PM   #6
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Default dangerous work! caution!

I am posting this in the three related theads I've begun in what is now the ANALOGUE FORUM (thank you!).

I want to CAUTION the curious about the dangers of working with fine dry lubricant powders. I use a snug-fitting mask. Seriously. Particles this fine can be easily inhaled.

Furthermore, such treatment may be damaging to your records and cartridge. I just don't know. One elder has who taken an interest in my endeavour remains sceptical, and with reason, I admit. I too have no faith in a treatment that "coats" vinyl. What I am experimenting with is lamella-structured dry lubricant that could conceivably integrate the vinyl surface. I am an experimenter, and I can accept failure as well as success.

Anyone who has experience and interest in this area is encouraged to post.
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Old 2nd April 2002, 05:07 PM   #7
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Default nothing ventureed, nothing gained, I guess...

As I wrote earlier, my initial experiment applying MOS2 to the surface of two worn records was encouraging. There was a significant reduction of surface noise and minor pops with no apparent musical compromise. Furthermore, careful refinement of the application method virtually eliminated the residue buildup on the stylus that I had noticed at first. Though it was time consuming, with due care I was able to refine the procedure neatly.

HOWEVER, having said that, using MOS2 in this application may also be risky. An article I read warned against using inferior grades of MOS2 (in gun barrels).because of the prospect of impurities (trisulphides, I believe) reacting with H2O to create SULFURIC ACID.

In spite of assurance from the supplier that their product is pure, I cannot recommend it or any other dry lubricant in any kind of formulation to treat LPs, and I will not be subjecting my innocent records (as Bernhard described them) to this. In other words, I am abandoning this experiment.

One thing I can happily report is that the MOS2 film appears to be removable, and I seem to have successfully cleaned those few test records of virtually all trace of it. I find this surprising, and it in fact indicates the failure of the material to bond to the PVC as I had hoped.

Sceptics will say “I told you so” and I accept this. I cannot claim any “breakthrough,” yet the experiment has given me further insight into that marvelous interaction of vinyl and stylus. Perhaps there is a magic formula out there, but admittedly, I have not found it. I still do not know the ingredients of products like “Gruv-Glide” and the various “Last” treatments, and I would appreciate hearing from more knowledgeable readers.

Now, I will turn my attention back to cleaning, that is, the REMOVAL of all film rather than its application.
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Old 27th April 2002, 11:32 AM   #8
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Back in the late 70's I used some Sound Gard spray that left a
dry film coating on records is this still avaliable? The Audio Amuture had an article on a diy record cleaner that you coated the
record with and then pealed off when it dried wish I still had the
article.

regards, bob12345678
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Old 29th April 2002, 09:26 PM   #9
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Default I don't know that product

I don't know that product though there are others on the market including Gruv-Glide and Last Record Preservative.

I don't know what is in these, but personally, I wouldn't use any of them except on vinyl that is otherwise unplayable. Even then, I would not expect any significant improvement; in other words, the record may still be unplayable.
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Old 1st May 2002, 08:24 PM   #10
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eila, it was worth a try and it seems at least you went into it with an open mind. Thanks for the effort!
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