A Trans-Atlantic Collaberation: High Gain Tube MC Phono Pre-Amp - diyAudio
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Old 6th May 2015, 06:06 PM   #1
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Default A Trans-Atlantic Collaberation: High Gain Tube MC Phono Pre-Amp

Hi,

Quote:
I guess at some point we should work on that head amp we've been discussing for a year. I suspect there is an ideal Russian tube...
Yeah, wouldn't that be great?
A dedicated MC phono stage would be quite something.....
As for the russiaqn valves, I was thinking about the 6S3/6S4 (what's the difference?) based on it being their equivalent of the EC86 but looking at the USSR sheets it doesn't seem to be a true equivalent or am I missing something?

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Old 7th May 2015, 04:14 PM   #2
piano3 is offline piano3  United Kingdom
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Apparently there is a valve 6p38p with maximum gm of 85 but I don't actually think it is possible to get it. 6j11p is pretty high and very well made, also 6j43p.
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Old 7th May 2015, 10:54 PM   #3
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Hi,

Those are all penthodes and some pretty odd ones too

For the MC stage I had a cascode in mind using //ed triodes at Vg0......
Will need some pretty quiet PS but it can be done.

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Old 8th May 2015, 12:03 AM   #4
piano3 is offline piano3  United Kingdom
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Don't you like triode wired pentodes? I agree 6j43p is a little bit odd.
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Old 9th May 2015, 03:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdegrove View Post
Hi,



Yeah, wouldn't that be great?
A dedicated MC phono stage would be quite something.....
As for the russiaqn valves, I was thinking about the 6S3/6S4 (what's the difference?) based on it being their equivalent of the EC86 but looking at the USSR sheets it doesn't seem to be a true equivalent or am I missing something?

Cheers,
I remember thinking about the EC86 when I was designing what ultimately became the Muscovite and was somewhat horrified at the cost.. The 6S3P/6S4P are really somewhat closer to a 5842/417A in most respects. I really like them - no failures, quiet, and long lived. (I like them for other more subjective reasons as well related to their distortion spectrum and I suppose their cost.)

The 6S3P is intended to be the bottom tube in a cascode, and the 6S4P the top, otherwise they are very similar parametrically with some differences in inter-electrode capacitances.. They will operate to several hundred MHz in a properly designed circuit. I settled on one for both positions as the inductance of the internal pinning arrangement is not relevant for audio applications.
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Old 9th May 2015, 03:14 PM   #6
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piano3 View Post
Apparently there is a valve 6p38p with maximum gm of 85 but I don't actually think it is possible to get it. 6j11p is pretty high and very well made, also 6j43p.
I've found a few types are near impossible to source while other types are practically given away. I am a big fan of some less popular Russian types which often have no western analogs and are stellar performers.
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Old 9th May 2015, 04:41 PM   #7
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Hi,

Thanks for all the info, Kevin.
Do you consider 5 Euro per EC86 expensive? We don't need that many of them per channel and they work fine at Vg0.

Of course it wouldn't be a Muscovite any longer...........

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Old 9th May 2015, 04:57 PM   #8
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Not too bad, but at the upper limit of what I generally want to spend except for tubes like the D3A.. lol I'm not finding a lot of correlation of merit with what the tubes cost - I guess buying Russian tubes has changed the value/performance equation for me.. lol

Edit: My recollection is that the 6S3P is actually significantly more linear and has slightly higher transconductance than the EC86, it was also much cheaper.. (The EC86 seems a bit cheaper now than I remember.)

The EC8010 might be an even better choice if there are any to be had. The D3A is a serious contender here as well except that the supply seems to be drying up..

I was thinking of running several tubes in parallel.. I'm still gravitating towards the 6S3P-EV for its consistency, low noise and low cost.

The 6S45P is worth a serious look..
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Old 9th May 2015, 05:18 PM   #9
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Hi,

Quote:
I was thinking of running several tubes in parallel.. I'm still gravitating towards the 6S3P-EV for its consistency, low noise and low cost.
If you think it's at least as good as EC86 then why not?
It's probably take at least 4 triodes in // per channel to reduce noise to acceptable levels IME.

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Old 9th May 2015, 05:24 PM   #10
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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I bought some 6S45P-E just now, not as cheap as I would like, but not extreme either..(Yeah they do cost a bit more than EC86..lol) Almost 3x the transconductance of an EC86 - once I get around to updating my uTracer hardware I will trace them.
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