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Old 3rd May 2015, 10:16 AM   #1
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Question Ball bearing

Hi to all . I'm try to calculate the force on platter spindle and
it's appear a so high value (if platter weight is high).
Is possible to implies a ball bearing or similar for spindle to
obtain a good trade off about wow and flutter and long life .
Thanks to all
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Old 3rd May 2015, 06:44 PM   #2
dice45 is offline dice45  Germany
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Hello gumo73,

ball bearing: please consider that your bearing's relative movements contaminate/overlay the groove undulations reaching down to the nanometer-range. In comparison to that, the bearing ball in its groove is like some roughly spherical rock rumbling/tumbling down an empty river bed. Not so smooooth ...

Why use ball/roller/needle bearing if you don't have to? see dimensioning of platter spindle radial plain bearing and axial trust bearing . Hope this helps.
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Old 4th May 2015, 12:56 PM   #3
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Question ok is clear

ball bearing: please consider that your bearing's relative movements contaminate/overlay the groove undulations reaching down to the nanometer-range. In comparison to that, the bearing ball in its groove is like some roughly spherical rock rumbling/tumbling down an empty river bed. Not so smooooth ...

Ok is clear but I'm interested by a trade off from low noise and long life off platter spindle .
I think the precision decrease rapidly by a low number of listen sessions if patter have an high weight.
If we consider a common materials...
I have look at high precision ball bearings if they are many on the same axes perhaps the rumbling is acceptable ?
Thanks for advance
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Old 4th May 2015, 03:37 PM   #4
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The weight is only in the vertical axis.

A single ball at the bottom center of the spindle is sufficient.
You can choose from carbide, sapphire, and ceramic for extra hardness.

One does not want to rotate a spindle on a THRUST bearing made from a set of multiple balls, in a race - a standard thrust bearing or taper bearing.

Other methods include oil bearings and air bearings.
Consider the air bearing, it eliminates all of your concerns.

The side-to-side bearing is a completely different thing, and oil or bronze bearings have been used for years.
Air works too.

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Old 4th May 2015, 04:04 PM   #5
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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air bearing has a "spring compliance". Same as a magnetic repulsion bearing.

Is this a concern?
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Old 4th May 2015, 04:07 PM   #6
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Depends on who you are asking.
It has the benefit of additional isolation and less noise.
Air bearings are pretty rock solid compared to magnetic repulsion bearings (usually).

If the platter itself is high mass and low resonance, coupling to the TT base, and possibly to the arm is likely moot. Pick up of airborne energy is also likely reduced.

You tell me?
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Old 4th May 2015, 04:50 PM   #7
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Question thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear View Post
The side-to-side bearing is a completely different thing
_-_-
Do you mean the planar bearing with ceramic cylinders ?

Last edited by gumo73; 4th May 2015 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 4th May 2015, 04:55 PM   #8
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Question platter mass vs spidle bearings

On the spindle are present a big lateral forces that increase
consumption of bearing spindle by increasing of platter mass
Is true ?
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Old 4th May 2015, 05:27 PM   #9
AuroraB is offline AuroraB  Norway
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I don't claim to have seen it all, but I have yet to see a TT spindle with regular ball, roller or needle bearings. Only bushings of various sorts for sides and a singel ball for the vertical. THis I believe is also used an almost all of todays ultra HiENds, - in either straight or inverted( with outer sleeve as the rotating part).
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Old 4th May 2015, 11:56 PM   #10
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consumption of bearing spindle?

no. the spindle rotates with a thin film of oil.
after many years of turning one may find some slight wear. the wear looks like what you see on the crankshaft or camshaft of an automobile engine.

There ought to be very little in lateral forces applied, as the platter ought to be almost perfectly balanced, and the drive belt ought to not apply much force at all. the entire assembly ought to be almost perfectly flat and level.

How much MASS do you anticipate??

There have been some very big and heavy platters, are you aiming for 300lbs??

The spindle should be hardened and ground steel, fwiw.

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