There is a "big issue " about this reel many complain about the same problem which is slow RW and FFW when you wind the tape on any side the "engine" runs out of steam and often stops completely Obviously at this condition or even with less tape loaded between the reels starting RW or FFW respectively has also no effect Engine dont have the power to start.
Many post questions about it, and looks like a design flaw rather than a damage Still there is an other internet urban legend regarding a couple of resistors that fail (never found one failed though ) but of course winding problem has absolutely nothing to do with it .Yet again no matter the plenty questions or the urban legend nobody seems to come up with a solution .
I dont understand why this is happening on the internet . People that have no idea about electronics post solutions related to the blue resistors that obviously have no effect one the specific problem .
Anyone with ABC knowledge of electronics will see in the first minute that the blue resistor with one 1N 400X diode is there to consume the reverse voltage produced by the motor when spins free on the opposite direction . you don't want this reverse voltage against your drive transistors ...Alike protection diodes for reverse current to any transistor operated relay drive circuit .
You might have issues there but none of them is related to the slow REW or FFW problem . period !!!
Face it !!! the design has a flaw ...
Real reasons that might cause the problem
---Dirt and tape left overs all over
---Age problems regarding capacitors/resistors/contacts on the psu of 18.7 volts
---Aging of the motors
---Fatigue on the plastic gear ( created by spinning belts)
---Problems on the belts
---Tape/reel itself related issues
---Remote but possible: alignment issues
---In general and even though the design looks pretty cool problem remains that tape travels through a lot of barriers to end up in the other reel and that on its own is an issue .
Now you may choose any of the problems and any possible combination between them and you will end up with a slow wind speed ...Often its so slow that either the tape will stop completely winding at some point at the end, or if needed to start winding while some amount of tape is winded in the other reel then start is impossible .
There is a vanished guy that offers a fix but as far as i know this guy doesn't answer email or takes too long to ship parts or what he calls kit ....
Got it fixed permanently !!!
The way i did it offers
---No more than 5 euro of parts and one hour of work
---Increases wind speed side to side by far
---Reduces stress on belts and plastic gear
---Will work the same well even if belts inside are very loose/old
--- will be able to start in very high speed at any position of tape or type of load
---It will work extremely very well even if tape drive is dirty or belts are old or power supply has age issues or motors have age issues
Most of all has absolutely no side effects either in electromechanical points or from any sound or any other aspect ...
Kind regards
Sakis
Many post questions about it, and looks like a design flaw rather than a damage Still there is an other internet urban legend regarding a couple of resistors that fail (never found one failed though ) but of course winding problem has absolutely nothing to do with it .Yet again no matter the plenty questions or the urban legend nobody seems to come up with a solution .
I dont understand why this is happening on the internet . People that have no idea about electronics post solutions related to the blue resistors that obviously have no effect one the specific problem .
Anyone with ABC knowledge of electronics will see in the first minute that the blue resistor with one 1N 400X diode is there to consume the reverse voltage produced by the motor when spins free on the opposite direction . you don't want this reverse voltage against your drive transistors ...Alike protection diodes for reverse current to any transistor operated relay drive circuit .
You might have issues there but none of them is related to the slow REW or FFW problem . period !!!
Face it !!! the design has a flaw ...
Real reasons that might cause the problem
---Dirt and tape left overs all over
---Age problems regarding capacitors/resistors/contacts on the psu of 18.7 volts
---Aging of the motors
---Fatigue on the plastic gear ( created by spinning belts)
---Problems on the belts
---Tape/reel itself related issues
---Remote but possible: alignment issues
---In general and even though the design looks pretty cool problem remains that tape travels through a lot of barriers to end up in the other reel and that on its own is an issue .
Now you may choose any of the problems and any possible combination between them and you will end up with a slow wind speed ...Often its so slow that either the tape will stop completely winding at some point at the end, or if needed to start winding while some amount of tape is winded in the other reel then start is impossible .
There is a vanished guy that offers a fix but as far as i know this guy doesn't answer email or takes too long to ship parts or what he calls kit ....
Got it fixed permanently !!!
The way i did it offers
---No more than 5 euro of parts and one hour of work
---Increases wind speed side to side by far
---Reduces stress on belts and plastic gear
---Will work the same well even if belts inside are very loose/old
--- will be able to start in very high speed at any position of tape or type of load
---It will work extremely very well even if tape drive is dirty or belts are old or power supply has age issues or motors have age issues
Most of all has absolutely no side effects either in electromechanical points or from any sound or any other aspect ...
Kind regards
Sakis
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For DIY audio people
Points are:
A) that the reel has a design flaw or more and
B) as usual there is an urban legend about it blaming some notorious blue resistors which apparently have had or will have no issues or nothing to do with the trouble !
---Reel is runing out of steam in FFW or RW mode when tape is full and load increases.
---DC motors pull the tape through belts and plastic gear driven by soft start DC PSu.
---For mechanical reasons first and a number of fatigue reasons in electronics the motor assembly simply don't have the power for it .
Some even try to increase the voltage in the motor to gain more juice but even this wasn't enough.Power/Torque still wasn't enough.
1) Blue resistors now is a part that operates on the non working motor on the opposite side when the "other" is doing FF or RW and of course their job together with a diode is to consume the voltage produced by the motor when in condition to free spin while the other motor is pulling any failure there is not related to the RW FFW torque
2)We end up that the problem is mechanic tape travels through a lot of barriers so we decided to "help" her spin when right motor is doing RW duty Then the left motor will work in a way to un-wind the tape for the pulling motor to get the job easier .
3)Voltage from the pulling motor is used to click a relay on the other side motor to transfer the other side motor to another low power supply and actually put it to work in a way that unreels the opposite side tape So the pulling motor gets some help from the opposite motor And of course this is happening likewise for both motors since this is an Auto reverse machine
Low power supply exists all ready in the machine and its the one that feeds unstabilized the motors at PLAY mode with a bit of power just to wind the tape after the pinch roller done all the pulling job ....
Now the FUN part
It will only take a couple of relays that actually are 24 volt and a specific resistance to be able to click with some 16 volt that are produced from the motor PSU
Now this will require some thinking one may as well use 12 volt relays or regulate some voltage to work with 12 volt relays Looks closer to work with 12 volt relays when voltage is 16 rather than 24 volt relays
Problem is that voltage present there at RW or FFW mode is something like 16 volt but also there is some voltage produced when the motor is at free spin condition ( the other motor is pulling ) so some 4-9 volts may be present there and this may as well activate the relay and obviously we don't want that .Also it is not safe to operate 12 V relay from 16 V power supply ... Let us not forget that a free spinning DC motor will work as a generator So 24V relays it will be my friends .
Notice that motors are driven by regulated power supply but voltage is engaged by relays so in any chance there is no harm to be done in electronics by reverse voltage since an open contact is in between .
Also you dont need a reverse diode on the relay since this one already exists on the motor that gives the power together with the notorious blue resistors .
Low power supply exists all ready in the machine and its the one that feeds unstabilized the motors at PLAY mode with a bit of power just to wind the tape after the pinch roller done all the pulling job , voltage is low and PSU doesn't feature electronics just a good bridge and a capacitor that obviously doesn't get damaged when a few very little more voltage is around ( at free spin motor may produce some voltage that will be a bit higher than the low voltage power supply produced but this as said can do no harm and comes in the correct polarity )
Brakes are mechanical so absolutely no side effects and working like a charm ...see the Video !!!
Low voltage is so low that in absolutely no case will end up un-winding the tape faster than the pulling motor ....
Fun he ???? Enjoy !!!
Thanks for your time
KInd regards
Sakis
Points are:
A) that the reel has a design flaw or more and
B) as usual there is an urban legend about it blaming some notorious blue resistors which apparently have had or will have no issues or nothing to do with the trouble !
---Reel is runing out of steam in FFW or RW mode when tape is full and load increases.
---DC motors pull the tape through belts and plastic gear driven by soft start DC PSu.
---For mechanical reasons first and a number of fatigue reasons in electronics the motor assembly simply don't have the power for it .
Some even try to increase the voltage in the motor to gain more juice but even this wasn't enough.Power/Torque still wasn't enough.
1) Blue resistors now is a part that operates on the non working motor on the opposite side when the "other" is doing FF or RW and of course their job together with a diode is to consume the voltage produced by the motor when in condition to free spin while the other motor is pulling any failure there is not related to the RW FFW torque
2)We end up that the problem is mechanic tape travels through a lot of barriers so we decided to "help" her spin when right motor is doing RW duty Then the left motor will work in a way to un-wind the tape for the pulling motor to get the job easier .
3)Voltage from the pulling motor is used to click a relay on the other side motor to transfer the other side motor to another low power supply and actually put it to work in a way that unreels the opposite side tape So the pulling motor gets some help from the opposite motor And of course this is happening likewise for both motors since this is an Auto reverse machine
Low power supply exists all ready in the machine and its the one that feeds unstabilized the motors at PLAY mode with a bit of power just to wind the tape after the pinch roller done all the pulling job ....
Now the FUN part
It will only take a couple of relays that actually are 24 volt and a specific resistance to be able to click with some 16 volt that are produced from the motor PSU
Now this will require some thinking one may as well use 12 volt relays or regulate some voltage to work with 12 volt relays Looks closer to work with 12 volt relays when voltage is 16 rather than 24 volt relays
Problem is that voltage present there at RW or FFW mode is something like 16 volt but also there is some voltage produced when the motor is at free spin condition ( the other motor is pulling ) so some 4-9 volts may be present there and this may as well activate the relay and obviously we don't want that .Also it is not safe to operate 12 V relay from 16 V power supply ... Let us not forget that a free spinning DC motor will work as a generator So 24V relays it will be my friends .
Notice that motors are driven by regulated power supply but voltage is engaged by relays so in any chance there is no harm to be done in electronics by reverse voltage since an open contact is in between .
Also you dont need a reverse diode on the relay since this one already exists on the motor that gives the power together with the notorious blue resistors .
Low power supply exists all ready in the machine and its the one that feeds unstabilized the motors at PLAY mode with a bit of power just to wind the tape after the pinch roller done all the pulling job , voltage is low and PSU doesn't feature electronics just a good bridge and a capacitor that obviously doesn't get damaged when a few very little more voltage is around ( at free spin motor may produce some voltage that will be a bit higher than the low voltage power supply produced but this as said can do no harm and comes in the correct polarity )
Brakes are mechanical so absolutely no side effects and working like a charm ...see the Video !!!
Low voltage is so low that in absolutely no case will end up un-winding the tape faster than the pulling motor ....
Fun he ???? Enjoy !!!
Thanks for your time
KInd regards
Sakis
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Hello Sakis,
thank you for sharing your solution. Very nice trick but a little bit unusual one. I don’t remember any home R2R machine that « pulls » the tape. Anyway, your solution works, that’s the only thing that matters.
I think that one must consider the sticky tapes also, so maybe an auto stop switch on the left tape tension arm, like the one on the right side, would protect in case of tape loops or any other electronic issues.
Well done, best regards,
thank you for sharing your solution. Very nice trick but a little bit unusual one. I don’t remember any home R2R machine that « pulls » the tape. Anyway, your solution works, that’s the only thing that matters.
I think that one must consider the sticky tapes also, so maybe an auto stop switch on the left tape tension arm, like the one on the right side, would protect in case of tape loops or any other electronic issues.
Well done, best regards,
Well is far as i remember in any condition one switch in any of the tension arm will be enough to do the trick ...At any point that tension ""falls "" switch will be activated regardless if its left or right located .
So we are fine
So far i have moded 3 of those over 2 months passed and trust me costumers that suffered from the previous problems did all possible tests to them ( since they also payed some money to have them done )
so we are fine ...
Kind regards
Sakis
So we are fine
So far i have moded 3 of those over 2 months passed and trust me costumers that suffered from the previous problems did all possible tests to them ( since they also payed some money to have them done )
so we are fine ...
Kind regards
Sakis
It might be simple for you to do, but I'm a software guy. I can solder, I can replace parts, but figuring out how to wire relays to provide power to the opposing reel motor is beyond me. I need more details. I need to know what points to use as sensing for the relays, where to get the power from... preferably a step-by-step instruction with a parts list.
Charles.
Charles.
It's really not that simple. Right now I can wire it up with a few relays, but the problem I'm coming up with as I think about this is thus:
For fast forward, I'm using power to the right reel motor as a trigger to activate a relay. This relay feeds voltage (if present) from the trigger of the RL1 high/low voltage selection relay to another relay, which feeds 4.5v to the left motor.
So, if the right motor is on, and the voltage is high, supply the left reel motor with low voltage.
The problem is duplicating this so that it works in both directions. If I just duplicate that logic, in FF the right motor is on, and the voltage is high. So supply the left reel motor with low voltage. But then the left reel motor is on, and the voltage is high, so supply the right reel motor with low voltage. So the right reel motor gets 12v AND 4.5 volts.
I need to pull the trigger voltage for the relay from somewhere else, and not just use "motor has power" as a trigger to control the other motor's power. And therein lies the dilemma.
Charles.
For fast forward, I'm using power to the right reel motor as a trigger to activate a relay. This relay feeds voltage (if present) from the trigger of the RL1 high/low voltage selection relay to another relay, which feeds 4.5v to the left motor.
So, if the right motor is on, and the voltage is high, supply the left reel motor with low voltage.
The problem is duplicating this so that it works in both directions. If I just duplicate that logic, in FF the right motor is on, and the voltage is high. So supply the left reel motor with low voltage. But then the left reel motor is on, and the voltage is high, so supply the right reel motor with low voltage. So the right reel motor gets 12v AND 4.5 volts.
I need to pull the trigger voltage for the relay from somewhere else, and not just use "motor has power" as a trigger to control the other motor's power. And therein lies the dilemma.
Charles.
Read the post carefully ..the procedure is explained and its very simple
1)each relay its connected as a transfer switch for the motor
2) at play back the relay takes no action and voltage is supplied from NC contacts to the motor as was
3) at FFW or REW the motor takes voltage from the low power PSU ( existing ) and the 24V relay is marginally triggered from the voltage existing on the oposite motor ...
That simple
1)each relay its connected as a transfer switch for the motor
2) at play back the relay takes no action and voltage is supplied from NC contacts to the motor as was
3) at FFW or REW the motor takes voltage from the low power PSU ( existing ) and the 24V relay is marginally triggered from the voltage existing on the oposite motor ...
That simple
I get that they're transfer switches, I get that the low power PSU is the source. I don't get how both sides aren't triggered. In FF, the left motor is triggered when the right motor gets voltage. In RW the right motor is triggered when the left gets voltage.
In FF, the left motor transfer relay is triggered when the right motor gets power. But then the left motor has power, and that would trigger the right motor transfer relay too. So the right motor would get both the high power and the low power from the PSU.
I don't currently see a way of isolating the right motor's transfer relay in FF, so that it doesn't switch on when the left motor is given power by the modification.
Charles.
In FF, the left motor transfer relay is triggered when the right motor gets power. But then the left motor has power, and that would trigger the right motor transfer relay too. So the right motor would get both the high power and the low power from the PSU.
I don't currently see a way of isolating the right motor's transfer relay in FF, so that it doesn't switch on when the left motor is given power by the modification.
Charles.
I'm not missing the principal of operation, you're missing the question I'm asking.
1. Right motor energized in FF.
2. 24v relay senses power in right motor. Completes circuit to run left motor in reverse at low voltage.
3. HERE IS THE PROBLEM: 24v relay senses power in left motor, completes circuit to run right motor in reverse at low voltage. Right motor is currently running in forward at high voltage.
My question is how to prevent #3 from happening.
Charles.
1. Right motor energized in FF.
2. 24v relay senses power in right motor. Completes circuit to run left motor in reverse at low voltage.
3. HERE IS THE PROBLEM: 24v relay senses power in left motor, completes circuit to run right motor in reverse at low voltage. Right motor is currently running in forward at high voltage.
My question is how to prevent #3 from happening.
Charles.