I have a home brew valve and vinyl only system, so as you could imagine I spend as much time trying to get it to do what it's supposed to do as I spend actually listening. The turntable is a technics 1200 but everything else I mAde. It's always been a bit underwhelming, and I try to aim high.
Well I just upgraded my cart to a denon 103 and some sowter SUT's.
Amazing!! I have ways been very sceptical about million dollar systems, I mean it's a record ! Some are just badly pressed rubbish, and I don't meant the content. But wow!!! It's amazing what a difference it has made!! More than than the speakers or the amp or anything else. Best money I ever spent. I now wonder if ...... Would double my fun?
$500 bucks give or take has made an amazing difference. I can't think of anything else in the path that gave as much bang for buck
Well I just upgraded my cart to a denon 103 and some sowter SUT's.
Amazing!! I have ways been very sceptical about million dollar systems, I mean it's a record ! Some are just badly pressed rubbish, and I don't meant the content. But wow!!! It's amazing what a difference it has made!! More than than the speakers or the amp or anything else. Best money I ever spent. I now wonder if ...... Would double my fun?
$500 bucks give or take has made an amazing difference. I can't think of anything else in the path that gave as much bang for buck
I purchased the same Cart. from Ebay. At first listen it seamed to lack dynamics and of course it played so low! It wasn't long, maybe 10 hours or so that it began to sound better. 20-30 hrs later and it was just singing! Just saving up $ for matching MM pre-amp now! The DL-103 hasn't replaced my 2M red Cart., but close second! Maybe on a new arm!?
I think it depends very heavily on the transformer used as to what sort of performance you will get. I find any one of my SPU and a pair of LL1941 to resolve better and sound more neutral than my Benz Ebony H. (The Benz new costs about as much as my most expensive SPU plus the transformers. And it is not in the same league, not even close.)
I would recommend investigating Lundahl, Sowter or Jensen for good SUTs. I had the Cinemags and thought they were OK, affordable used to keep the budget down.
I'm going to contradict sreten whose advice is generally rock solid here, based on direct experience. A DL-103 with a decent transformer will IMLE outperform a lot of considerably more expensive HOMC - I don't think a cheap HOMC, even a Denon will be close. Invest a little in decent transformers or a good head amp. (Project?)
Cheap Partridge 977 pairs very nicely with the DL-103, just a gain of 15dB however.
I would recommend investigating Lundahl, Sowter or Jensen for good SUTs. I had the Cinemags and thought they were OK, affordable used to keep the budget down.
I'm going to contradict sreten whose advice is generally rock solid here, based on direct experience. A DL-103 with a decent transformer will IMLE outperform a lot of considerably more expensive HOMC - I don't think a cheap HOMC, even a Denon will be close. Invest a little in decent transformers or a good head amp. (Project?)
Cheap Partridge 977 pairs very nicely with the DL-103, just a gain of 15dB however.
Hi,
If your the type that doesn't get on with a DL103, and some don't
severely, then I'll stand by my advice. If you do then nothing else
much will get close other than some other obscure expensive MC.
The DL110 is no DL103. But going for £83 on e-pray I'd stack it
up against the Ortofon Red going for moreorless the same price
any day of the week **. YMMV. The DL110 is great in Rega's,
and suits Technics, and doesn't need a step up device.
Output is not as high as most MM's, but source impedance is
much lower, hence less noise, and you can mod most MM
stages by halving the lower feedback resistor *, usually
about 1K if sensible for MM's, to bump up gain 6dB
and reduce the resistors noise contribution.
Again YMMV. IMO @ £83 its a relative bargain.
Unlike the now defunct DL160 the DL110 is fine with standard
47K loading, the DL160 preferred about 1K according to some.
And of course the capacitive loading is irrelevant, not like MM's.
rgds, sreten.
* Or piggy back the same value in parallel.
** nude tipped elliptical HOMC vs. a bushed tip MM ?
If your the type that doesn't get on with a DL103, and some don't
severely, then I'll stand by my advice. If you do then nothing else
much will get close other than some other obscure expensive MC.
The DL110 is no DL103. But going for £83 on e-pray I'd stack it
up against the Ortofon Red going for moreorless the same price
any day of the week **. YMMV. The DL110 is great in Rega's,
and suits Technics, and doesn't need a step up device.
Output is not as high as most MM's, but source impedance is
much lower, hence less noise, and you can mod most MM
stages by halving the lower feedback resistor *, usually
about 1K if sensible for MM's, to bump up gain 6dB
and reduce the resistors noise contribution.
Again YMMV. IMO @ £83 its a relative bargain.
Unlike the now defunct DL160 the DL110 is fine with standard
47K loading, the DL160 preferred about 1K according to some.
And of course the capacitive loading is irrelevant, not like MM's.
rgds, sreten.
* Or piggy back the same value in parallel.
** nude tipped elliptical HOMC vs. a bushed tip MM ?
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I guess all of this is assuming I would use my existing Pre-pre-amp! Wouldn't the MC FJET kit from Boozehounds work just as well and give one yet another piece of gear. I have not yet explored the SUT route and wondered about cost/performance ratio. With the MC FJET kit would it not equal the sound and match (albeit differ in character) the performance of the 2M red?
To correct my first 'Input' I meant to write MC instead of MM!
To correct my first 'Input' I meant to write MC instead of MM!
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Parallels my experience, 100% agree. I had a Grado Platinum Reference with bushed tip, and it was probably the least involving cartridge I have ever owned. Ultimately this cartridge was at the center of the comment about abandoning vinyl in my first post to this thread.
Hi,
All cheaper cartridges have a small diamond mounted in a bush as the tip.
Nude tips mount a diamond directly onto the cantilever.
The Ortofon Red is bushed elliptical. (also the FF15E, OM10, 510)
They are all round shanked / section bushes.
The Ortofon Blue is nude elliptical. (also the VMS20E, OM20, 520)
Nude ellipticals can be square or round shanked.
The Ortofon Bronze is nude FL. (Also the VMS30FL, OM30, 530)
All advanced nude tips are square shanked.
Though square really means oblong / rectangular.
rgds, sreten.
Bushed elliptical tip (unknown make) :
Ortofon nude square shanked fine line tip :
What is on my MC15SupermkII.
All cheaper cartridges have a small diamond mounted in a bush as the tip.
Nude tips mount a diamond directly onto the cantilever.
The Ortofon Red is bushed elliptical. (also the FF15E, OM10, 510)
They are all round shanked / section bushes.
The Ortofon Blue is nude elliptical. (also the VMS20E, OM20, 520)
Nude ellipticals can be square or round shanked.
The Ortofon Bronze is nude FL. (Also the VMS30FL, OM30, 530)
All advanced nude tips are square shanked.
Though square really means oblong / rectangular.
rgds, sreten.
Bushed elliptical tip (unknown make) :
Ortofon nude square shanked fine line tip :
What is on my MC15SupermkII.
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Hi,
Quite frankly I concluded a long time ago Grado are milking
their customer base for all they can get in their model line
up, pricing strategy and what you get for your money.
E.g a Grado gold : $220, new stylus $110.
Basically overcharging you by at least double for the body,
which costs peanuts more than the Black, $60, stylus $30.
And don't get me started on the wooden clad versions of the above.
$350 for a bushed tipped elliptical is a crime, and whoopee you
get a nude elliptical for $600, a nude "real ellipsoid" for $1500
and a "specially for Grado" unspecified nude diamond for $3000.
As for the LOMC-u-like output versions ....
Some people were born yesterday.
rgds, sreten.
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Back to my original post, I look at my sound reproduction system and I try to focus on the big things. Good speakers, quite accurate reproduction etc. I would put "nude diamonds" up there with 15pf capacitances in my cables. In the real world that I pretend to inhabit, I don't buy a lot of snake oil. I don't buy expense cables connectors ets. I really thought that perhaps carts are like that. Spend twice as much and maybe notice a very small difference. Well guess what, some stuff does make a difference!!
I have more money invested in this than is decent but I am small potatoes to some people.
My point is that this has been the best money spent on the smallest thing!! If I spent the same percentage of money on new OUtput transformers for my valve amp and got the same result I would fall over amazed. Same goes for any other component I can think off.
Just really good value for money
Now, how do I get to listen to a really high end system to compare? In Batemans bay??
Anyone??
I have more money invested in this than is decent but I am small potatoes to some people.
My point is that this has been the best money spent on the smallest thing!! If I spent the same percentage of money on new OUtput transformers for my valve amp and got the same result I would fall over amazed. Same goes for any other component I can think off.
Just really good value for money
Now, how do I get to listen to a really high end system to compare? In Batemans bay??
Anyone??
I'm glad you're enjoying the DL103 and Sowters.
I use the DL103R and have tried both Partridge 977 and Lundahl 9206 SUTs. Both were good, but the Lundahl has far better extension and detail at both ends of the frequency spectrum in my system.
Previously I used the SUTs with the MM input of a Clearaudio Smart Phono, which was much better than no SUTs and the MC input. The SUTs seemed to 'breathe' far better than the MC gain stage of the Clearaudio.
More recently I've built the Boozehound Labs JFET phono with very tightly matched components, including Russian Teflon and PIO caps. I'm still using the Lundahl SUTs and am very happy. Given the high output impedance of the BHL circuit, I added a Nelson Pass B1 buffer on the output (my TVC preamp wouldn't work well with a high output impedance source).
My next upgrade will be to install a very low noise regulated PSU to the BHL + B1. I have the reg here ready to go
I use the DL103R and have tried both Partridge 977 and Lundahl 9206 SUTs. Both were good, but the Lundahl has far better extension and detail at both ends of the frequency spectrum in my system.
Previously I used the SUTs with the MM input of a Clearaudio Smart Phono, which was much better than no SUTs and the MC input. The SUTs seemed to 'breathe' far better than the MC gain stage of the Clearaudio.
More recently I've built the Boozehound Labs JFET phono with very tightly matched components, including Russian Teflon and PIO caps. I'm still using the Lundahl SUTs and am very happy. Given the high output impedance of the BHL circuit, I added a Nelson Pass B1 buffer on the output (my TVC preamp wouldn't work well with a high output impedance source).
My next upgrade will be to install a very low noise regulated PSU to the BHL + B1. I have the reg here ready to go
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