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Old 26th December 2003, 02:25 AM   #1
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Default DIY Vinyl Cutter, guidance needed :+)

Hi, I am a qualified metal machinist, and I was wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to construct a Vinyl cutter, like the Vestax unit (VRX 2000) maybe using the cutting head off the Vestax unit, if a source is available. (haven't found a supplier on the net yet)

I'm not sure if the VRX ever made it to the masses, I have never heard of anyone owning one.

the VRX uses 'Harmodisks' which supposedly last 90% the life of a pressed vinyl record. does anyone know of a source?

BTW, if anyone can also point me to any sources of info, for the specific science/details of the equipment for pressing vinyl, that would be cool too.

have a nice Christmas break! from Steve
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Old 26th December 2003, 02:38 PM   #2
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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http://www.vestax.com/products/specs...000_specs.html

The specifications are very poor :
14 minutes a side
fixed cutting speed (causes the above)
max velocity 5cm/sec
20Hz-12.5KHz +/- 3dB - yuk

Only possible use is making 12" 45's for clubs.

Pointless in terms of hifi IMO.

sreten.
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Old 26th December 2003, 02:57 PM   #3
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You can find some info in "Sound recording practice" by John Borwick. Not much, but enough to give some clues to look further.

Also "The life and works of Alen Dower Blumlein" by R.C. Alexander. It has a lot of references to patents concerning stereo recording and disc cutting heads.

Think it might be easier shopping for a second hand one. Make sure your floor can stand it!

http://www.classicelectronics.com/Photolathe.html
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Old 26th December 2003, 03:28 PM   #4
Netlist is offline Netlist  Belgium
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Hmm...it wouldn't surprise if Mr. Pass jumped into this thread: http://www.passlabs.com/temp/stasis_telarc2.jpg

/Hugo
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Old 27th December 2003, 12:15 AM   #5
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Hi,

Quote:
Hmm...it wouldn't surprise if Mr. Pass jumped into this thread:
Looks like a Neumann lathe...

Quote:
Think it might be easier shopping for a second hand one. Make sure your floor can stand it!
Yeah...Cheaper second hand than building your own surely.

Cheers,
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Old 27th December 2003, 12:40 AM   #6
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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I'll just add unless you have a 2-track analogue mastertape
the whole endeavor is entirely pointless in my opinion.

(unless your going for live vinyl transfer !)

The analogue reference is not vinyl, its 2 track tape.

If your master is digital, end of story, copy it on to CD.

One of the points of CD is its the same as the Master.

Unless you presume vinyl transfer and replay somehow
improves the end result, IMO its not a sensible arguement.

sreten.
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Old 27th December 2003, 01:20 AM   #7
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Hi,

Quote:
The analogue reference is not vinyl, its 2 track tape.
Guess we're the rare animals that actually were lucky enough to compare...

Master matrix to vinyl is delicate to do and I can count the truely successful ones on one hand...

Digital master transfers should be better but I'm afraid I can't say I notice much improvement, quite to the contrary...

There are some improvements at frequency extremes sometines, but as for realism?
You don't beat an analogue master easily...

Naturally, there a hundred other factors too but I guess discussing Blumlein and Decca booms is just a waste of time nowadays...

Dynamic range and stereo imageing to die for...Few CDs come even close.
Those lucky few with ribbon speakers or horns may know what I mean...

It's almost the real thing, almost.

Cheers,
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Old 27th December 2003, 12:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
One of the points of CD is its the same as the Master.
If you mean that cd is the lp master tape, then no it isn't. There is normally an intermediate master just for cutting. Things like a narrower bass range and more compressing would be the difference.
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Old 27th December 2003, 12:58 PM   #9
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I think sreten is talking about the fact that an ideal CD replication is the same as the master, whereas a vinyl mother is different to a vinyl pressing... the stampers lose a bit of resolution, pick up noise, pops, etc, hence the development of 'Direct Metal Mastering' technology. (I think the groove is cut directly into the stampers, it is new technology) http://www.europadisk.com/Dmm.htm though I wonder if the tracking ability is affected...


anyway, my motivation for creating vinyl records is because I've wanted to press my own material since I was a lad, and there are only two vinyl pressing houses in Australia, and an experienced record label man told me not to bother with either of them, though I'll still check out some of their pressings myself, to find out first-hand. If I could somehow accumulate the equipment to press vinyl myself then I would be happy! (and would suddenly find I have lots of new friends!)

BTW, I am an analogue freak, and I hope to one-day be able to have a pure analogue signal path from studio to pressing! I'm not silly enough to expect benefits by providing a CDR master to a vinyl pressing house! (though it happens all the time!)

I wish I knew what happened to all the pressing equipment that got abandoned in Australia in the mid-90's!

yeah, 12.5kHz (3dB down, at that) is pretty horrible!

Anyway, thanks for those replies! it is fun reading them! (i'm a newbie)
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Old 27th December 2003, 01:52 PM   #10
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by Havoc

If you mean that cd is the lp master tape, then no it isn't. There is normally an intermediate master just for cutting. Things like a narrower bass range and more compressing would be the difference.
You are quite right, though when CD was introduced they
made a big deal of the the possibility of the CD and Master
tracks being identical, i.e. no transfer loss.

Some engineers cannot leave it alone, adding bass EQ,
compression, "cleaning it up" and other dubious practises,
along with normalising levels if required.

With modern high bandwidth hi bit recording on hard disk,
its less and less likely the master is recorded in CD format.
(16bit/44.1kHz)

sreten.
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