Just an introductory post to start this thread off. It is an offshoot of the "my latest iteration of 'Nanook's 219 tonearm' " thread (hence referred to as "the 219 thread") based on a few of the posts regarding some interest in a turntable project. Also please note that the contents of the thread may be used as the basis for a commercial offering or project. Almost every aspect of the project will be open source unless I have created or discovered some sort of "secret sauce" that is independent of the thread. Any who provide input that might make it to a commercial offering will be credited with their ideas and implementations.
I do not want to get too much of a start here until a bit of the "unfinished business" of the 219 thread is completed. I just posted in the 219 thread regarding my motivation and thoughts about the high cost of audio (in general). Have a look here.
I do not want to get too much of a start here until a bit of the "unfinished business" of the 219 thread is completed. I just posted in the 219 thread regarding my motivation and thoughts about the high cost of audio (in general). Have a look here.
Stew this is one thread that I'm going to be looking forward to following.
I, like you, have a view that good sounds can come from older reused equipment, improved with upgraded homemade plinths, or parts from dead systems rebuilt into unique designs. Top level turntables are highly priced because of the high levels of sound reproduction however most do not have infinite funding to pursue these levels but it doesn't mean good levels cannot be obtained from DIY systems.
The Beast had a most beautiful sound before the conditions of central heating took its toll on the wood and it had to be mothballed for a year or two to let it settle and dry out fully. It will come back to life again one day. 🙂
I, like you, have a view that good sounds can come from older reused equipment, improved with upgraded homemade plinths, or parts from dead systems rebuilt into unique designs. Top level turntables are highly priced because of the high levels of sound reproduction however most do not have infinite funding to pursue these levels but it doesn't mean good levels cannot be obtained from DIY systems.
The Beast had a most beautiful sound before the conditions of central heating took its toll on the wood and it had to be mothballed for a year or two to let it settle and dry out fully. It will come back to life again one day. 🙂
If like me most of us, we have a spare TT knocking about the shed.....
Or we go looking now that our appetites have been whetted at being able to knock up a halfway decent Arm.
Then a TT should not pose to many problems.
Let me tell you it most certainly will, but hay thats just part of the challenge!
Ok the piece of rubbish (donor) Im going to be changing out of all proportion will be an old & let me say a well knackerd, Lenco 78.
No Plinth.
Droopy arm, no headshell.
The plater moves (rocks) about 3mm from side to side, so main bearing toast!
The motor works but is noisy.
The rest of the mechanicals etc work.
The good thing about the Lenco's are, that their are a lot of them about. & the 'Lenco Heaven' site has so much information about refurbishing them that ANYONE could do a TT rebuild, so much help & encouragement.
Now I was given this bit of kit by a mate years ago so no apologies as to what I'm going to do to it.
I have Already made a start, Cutting up the Top Plate with an Angle Grinder.
I have been on holiday in the Lake District (Cumbria UK)
Where most of the houses are made of the local slate; & which has been found to make a very good (compatible) base for the Lenco, Stacked or layers of Plywood is another good base for Idler drive TT.
So I was able to find I nice piece of Slate from the Slate Mine & had it cut to 500mm square its about 30mm thick not smooth top or bottom.
The rest of it will be made (fabricated) in no particular order, from beer cans, door stops, fibre glass resin & last but not least Cat Litter.... All this will go to make a fairly HIGH END TT.
Oh & eventually a couple of 219s an RB300 & an Audiomods Rega soooo shiny.
Jay
Or we go looking now that our appetites have been whetted at being able to knock up a halfway decent Arm.
Then a TT should not pose to many problems.
Let me tell you it most certainly will, but hay thats just part of the challenge!
Ok the piece of rubbish (donor) Im going to be changing out of all proportion will be an old & let me say a well knackerd, Lenco 78.
No Plinth.
Droopy arm, no headshell.
The plater moves (rocks) about 3mm from side to side, so main bearing toast!
The motor works but is noisy.
The rest of the mechanicals etc work.
The good thing about the Lenco's are, that their are a lot of them about. & the 'Lenco Heaven' site has so much information about refurbishing them that ANYONE could do a TT rebuild, so much help & encouragement.
Now I was given this bit of kit by a mate years ago so no apologies as to what I'm going to do to it.
I have Already made a start, Cutting up the Top Plate with an Angle Grinder.
I have been on holiday in the Lake District (Cumbria UK)
Where most of the houses are made of the local slate; & which has been found to make a very good (compatible) base for the Lenco, Stacked or layers of Plywood is another good base for Idler drive TT.
So I was able to find I nice piece of Slate from the Slate Mine & had it cut to 500mm square its about 30mm thick not smooth top or bottom.
The rest of it will be made (fabricated) in no particular order, from beer cans, door stops, fibre glass resin & last but not least Cat Litter.... All this will go to make a fairly HIGH END TT.
Oh & eventually a couple of 219s an RB300 & an Audiomods Rega soooo shiny.
Jay
Good sounds from older equipment and the beginning of the design reveal.
Squiffy, not just old or renewed pieces, but new construction can be very good as well. The considerations are really having a fundamental grip on materials and resonance. If you can diminish the resonances, everything else will be better, although some have proven that too much resonance control may not be desirable as well.
I did a search and found an image of "the beast", and some horn loudspeakers that you had posted. Very nice and finished to a high level.
Once completely "settled", put some satin finish polyurethane or wax on it to seal the wood from the drying effects of forced air heating. Its murder on solid wood guitars... because the interior has no finish .
Jay, I only wish I could find a decent Lenco at a decent price. I'll most like use a Dual 1016 (which I had started work on some time ago, or a Garrard Lab60, and finally a Lab80. As far as new construction, I have a few tricks up my sleeve for that. All of this is pending financing the projects. I suspect the Lab60 and Dual projects will be OK, but the Lab80 and new construction will be a little dear on the pocketbook.
Squiffy, not just old or renewed pieces, but new construction can be very good as well. The considerations are really having a fundamental grip on materials and resonance. If you can diminish the resonances, everything else will be better, although some have proven that too much resonance control may not be desirable as well.
I did a search and found an image of "the beast", and some horn loudspeakers that you had posted. Very nice and finished to a high level.
Once completely "settled", put some satin finish polyurethane or wax on it to seal the wood from the drying effects of forced air heating. Its murder on solid wood guitars... because the interior has no finish .
Jay, I only wish I could find a decent Lenco at a decent price. I'll most like use a Dual 1016 (which I had started work on some time ago, or a Garrard Lab60, and finally a Lab80. As far as new construction, I have a few tricks up my sleeve for that. All of this is pending financing the projects. I suspect the Lab60 and Dual projects will be OK, but the Lab80 and new construction will be a little dear on the pocketbook.
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I have a couple of Lenco L75's which I hope not to cannabalize. I rather keep them as Lencos... So a TT on a controlled budget would fit my wallet. A few hundred buckish depending on where they would make a difference.
Brgds
Brgds
Turbon, if doing a Lenco, not much really has to be done.
A good plinth, a decent arm, and that's about it. Servicing the Lencos should be a first priority. I wish I had one
.No "butchering" need occur to the Lencos. And save every single thing you remove from the Lenco. If wanting something else consider a Dual or whatever you can get near you at a reasonable price be it DD, idler, rim or belt. Everything can be made better without much money spent, and a belt drive can be converted into an idler easily enough.
I would imagine a few hundred $$$s, should result in something very listenable (if starting with a used TT, more if starting fresh with all new parts), It all depends on far you want to go.
A good plinth, a decent arm, and that's about it. Servicing the Lencos should be a first priority. I wish I had one
.No "butchering" need occur to the Lencos. And save every single thing you remove from the Lenco. If wanting something else consider a Dual or whatever you can get near you at a reasonable price be it DD, idler, rim or belt. Everything can be made better without much money spent, and a belt drive can be converted into an idler easily enough.I would imagine a few hundred $$$s, should result in something very listenable (if starting with a used TT, more if starting fresh with all new parts), It all depends on far you want to go.
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A good plinth, a decent arm, and that's about it. Servicing the Lencos should be a first priority. I wish I had one
I would imagine a few hundred $$$s, should result in something very listenable (if starting with a used TT, more if starting fresh with all new parts), It all depends on far you want to go.
They got service enough 😀. Yes, a good plint wouldn't hurt. I got a decent arm - the 219 😉 + more DIY arms on the way. I am waiting for a stronger spindle bearing. Before I make an plinth from templates I have I will see what you are up to and maybe copy your build instead. Or maybe make both
... One TT is atleast one TT short 😎.Brgds
Stew, even a rubbish one (as mine is) can be used, as long as the motor is working, everything else can be fixed or thrown away, All i'm using is the bearing, platter, motor, idler wheel & most, but not all of the Top Plate. & all with the exception of the Platter is in need of sorting out.
And thats really just take it All to bits clean, oil etc, adjust , tweak & put it back together, in any way you seem fit.
Ive sent off for some new bearing bushes, £4.00. Quite cheep really, just have to get the resin, about £35.00 for 20 kg, the slate was £60.00 bloody pricy & thats it all paid for. Oh & the Cat litter, hopping that will come in at £2.50. Everything else will come from bits n bobs lying around. I don't count the cost of Beer cans as I will be drinking the beer.
So for about £100.00 I'm looking at a very good quality TT.
Getting my busted Cartridge re tipped will cost as much or more, than this TT.
Your Garrard Lab's should be ok or as you said the Dual.
And thats really just take it All to bits clean, oil etc, adjust , tweak & put it back together, in any way you seem fit.
Ive sent off for some new bearing bushes, £4.00. Quite cheep really, just have to get the resin, about £35.00 for 20 kg, the slate was £60.00 bloody pricy & thats it all paid for. Oh & the Cat litter, hopping that will come in at £2.50. Everything else will come from bits n bobs lying around. I don't count the cost of Beer cans as I will be drinking the beer.
So for about £100.00 I'm looking at a very good quality TT.
Getting my busted Cartridge re tipped will cost as much or more, than this TT.
Your Garrard Lab's should be ok or as you said the Dual.
I have an interest in several TT designs. I like the Micro Seiki desings of the BL91, BL51, and the RX series such as the famous RX-5000. Obviously to have a turntable that will be more affordable you cant do something like the RX5000 with the air bearing. However, what if something is done where you have the motor seperate and have smaller and lighter platter with a grease bearing?
I like the idea of also doing an idler drive. I was working on a design where the motor would be down below with multiple belts driving the idler wheel to try and keep the motor noise out a bit. Then the idler wheel was going to be suspeneded some how so that preasure was placed on the platter but keep it from causing any rumble hopefully(that was my intent atleast)
This was something that I thought would be simple to make into a kit as you could offer a speed control and motor and idler wheel as a package. then someone could source their own platter and tone arm.
I like the idea of also doing an idler drive. I was working on a design where the motor would be down below with multiple belts driving the idler wheel to try and keep the motor noise out a bit. Then the idler wheel was going to be suspeneded some how so that preasure was placed on the platter but keep it from causing any rumble hopefully(that was my intent atleast)
This was something that I thought would be simple to make into a kit as you could offer a speed control and motor and idler wheel as a package. then someone could source their own platter and tone arm.
Turntable designs and the cost of re-tipping moving coil cartridges.
ORNJ: Well this will not be a democracy. This build will be as per my previously expressed opinions, but will be generic enough to apply to almost any turntable, regardless of drive type. See the tonearm thread for details from the beginning (sorry but that way you can get up to speed). Just skip through details that don't concern you. The thread is still open and I will continue to be active there helping out any or making suggestions.
Also have a look at the two linked files that were posted here. (Thanks Squiffy)
Jay: I'm assuming you have a "rubbish" Lenco? I'm still jealous. I think the epoxy/slate plinth will be a good thing, as it has been a proven performer, particularly with Lencos (see Oswald Mills Audio for example). I am seeking a source for slate here in North America and my have stumbled upon an interesting one. I'll let all know if it works out.
A busted cartridge can be DIY re-tipped if you have a steady hand. Someplace I saw or read something regarding using a Shure stylus (or for that manner any good stylus that can be had at a good price), some glue, and a cactus needle to do the re-tip. Or if the stylus tip is OK, but the cantilever has snapped, you can use your existing tip, and the cactus needed and glue. If it fails, the worst case scenario is that you have to have it sent out for re-tipping, and most folks doing that just replace the cantilever and tip as one assembly. The thing here is to use the best quality and shape of stylus that you can buy. I know Shure cartridges had hyper-elliptical and "Micro-line" (line contact type) stylus types, and the least expensive of any of these two would (I assume) work.
Ok, I'm off to actually do a little work on the arm. Designing for manufacturing (and hand making) tonearms is fun!
ORNJ: Well this will not be a democracy. This build will be as per my previously expressed opinions, but will be generic enough to apply to almost any turntable, regardless of drive type. See the tonearm thread for details from the beginning (sorry but that way you can get up to speed). Just skip through details that don't concern you. The thread is still open and I will continue to be active there helping out any or making suggestions.
Also have a look at the two linked files that were posted here. (Thanks Squiffy)
Jay: I'm assuming you have a "rubbish" Lenco? I'm still jealous. I think the epoxy/slate plinth will be a good thing, as it has been a proven performer, particularly with Lencos (see Oswald Mills Audio for example). I am seeking a source for slate here in North America and my have stumbled upon an interesting one. I'll let all know if it works out.
A busted cartridge can be DIY re-tipped if you have a steady hand. Someplace I saw or read something regarding using a Shure stylus (or for that manner any good stylus that can be had at a good price), some glue, and a cactus needle to do the re-tip. Or if the stylus tip is OK, but the cantilever has snapped, you can use your existing tip, and the cactus needed and glue. If it fails, the worst case scenario is that you have to have it sent out for re-tipping, and most folks doing that just replace the cantilever and tip as one assembly. The thing here is to use the best quality and shape of stylus that you can buy. I know Shure cartridges had hyper-elliptical and "Micro-line" (line contact type) stylus types, and the least expensive of any of these two would (I assume) work.
Ok, I'm off to actually do a little work on the arm. Designing for manufacturing (and hand making) tonearms is fun!
Ornj, I think the point Stew makes is that the thread, like his 219 thread, is about his personal views on designing and building what he views as a top level piece of audio equipment. He will base his ideas and designs on his beliefs on this and pass on his considerable knowledge gained from research and experience as the thread unfolds.
As you read the 219 thread you see that he is always open to input from others but ultimately it's a thread about a damn fine tonearm built based upon a concept that works.
I think and hope the TT thread will be the same. I'm sure your input will be welcome as will others but this will be your ideas implemented on your TT which may not sit with Stews views. I certainly have ideas that bubble inside some of which I have implemented some still to be fine tuned before making a start.
I have my eye on a couple of lovely looking wooden salad bowls that are just begging to be used as a plinth. Turn upside down, Idler drive internally housed bearing through the top (bottom of the bowl) with the platter sitting above. Very neat and tidy. Wooden arm mounts out of the sides for multiple arms hmmmmm where was that shop again and where's the next knackered TT that I can pull apart?
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ORJN, no apologies required. Ever.
Unless I may have been offensive in which case I owe the offended folks one.
I have a pretty strong sense of who and what I am and may come across as belligerent, rude, or simply not caring. Any and all that know me, know that this is this is absolutely the furthest from the truth. I'll explain my considerations (which I tried to do in the tonearm thread) and make my case for ultimately what I have decided on. I'll gladly accept any criticism. The only thing that should never occur is the feeling that one cannot disagree with me. Oh, and no personal attacks.
It is pretty much as Squiffy states in his last post. The discussion is completely open, but I will direct it and try to keep it on task (sort of like self policing). I hope you join in the fun.
Unless I may have been offensive in which case I owe the offended folks one.
I have a pretty strong sense of who and what I am and may come across as belligerent, rude, or simply not caring. Any and all that know me, know that this is this is absolutely the furthest from the truth. I'll explain my considerations (which I tried to do in the tonearm thread) and make my case for ultimately what I have decided on. I'll gladly accept any criticism. The only thing that should never occur is the feeling that one cannot disagree with me. Oh, and no personal attacks.
It is pretty much as Squiffy states in his last post. The discussion is completely open, but I will direct it and try to keep it on task (sort of like self policing). I hope you join in the fun.
Starting to pull the parts together.
I have a platter, a bearing, a wheel that would be suitable as an idler wheel, and an AC synchronous motor. Have a plinth started too. Look out.... it's gonna get messy...
...pictures to follow.
I have a platter, a bearing, a wheel that would be suitable as an idler wheel, and an AC synchronous motor. Have a plinth started too. Look out.... it's gonna get messy...
...pictures to follow.
busted cartridge
Thanks Arch,
This could well save a load of coin, & iv'e got nowt to loose by giving this a go..
great link.😀
One further question ANY ONE know which would be the nearest after market
Fine line elliptical stylus that could be grafted into my AT OC5.
Might as well fix it with the best stylus I can get for the relatively low cost of this fix.
Also how can the cartridge be cleaned of what looks like magnetic debris.
Iv'e sucked at it with the Dyson 😱 but that stuff really does cling.
Could it be that the cart needs demagnetising?
Jay
Thanks Arch,
This could well save a load of coin, & iv'e got nowt to loose by giving this a go..
great link.😀
One further question ANY ONE know which would be the nearest after market
Fine line elliptical stylus that could be grafted into my AT OC5.
Might as well fix it with the best stylus I can get for the relatively low cost of this fix.
Also how can the cartridge be cleaned of what looks like magnetic debris.
Iv'e sucked at it with the Dyson 😱 but that stuff really does cling.
Could it be that the cart needs demagnetising?
Jay
Attachments
Nanook or someone loving to have one: Hmmm. big problems getting an ebay link into this place... Maybe diyaudio isn't making enough on us using it...
Will try again: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenco-L75-T...pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item23320c2f49
Brgds
Will try again: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenco-L75-T...pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item23320c2f49
Brgds
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