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Old 25th March 2013, 01:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arckivio View Post
If an LP12 has a very tight tolerance bearing, the extra torque from the maxon motor would improve sound quality wouldn't it? All I know is this thing did nothing to improve sound quality for me because my platter is really easy to turn once I got rid of the teflon disc.
LP12's have a fairly free running bearing, which is a good thing considering the stock Premotec AC motor doesn't have a lot of torque. Once the platter is spinning, there isn't the need for more torque with this configuration.

The latest motor/controller from Linn is DC with feedback, but the bearing is the same AFAIK.

jeff
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Old 25th March 2013, 06:47 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by vinylkid58 View Post
LP12's have a fairly free running bearing, which is a good thing considering the stock Premotec AC motor doesn't have a lot of torque. Once the platter is spinning, there isn't the need for more torque with this configuration.

The latest motor/controller from Linn is DC with feedback, but the bearing is the same AFAIK.

jeff
Never having owned an LP12 I just assumed it had to be the torque of the O/L that improved it, you live and learn & I should have learned to make one of these little magic boxes!!!
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Old 25th March 2013, 09:24 AM   #13
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I run an lp12 bearing in my Kuzma Stabi/s with the standard premotec motor fed via simple 500va transformer, two 120v rails offset to exact 90 degree quadrature with a capacitor value that was trial and errored and measured again and again until the perfect value was arrived at. The standard value is .22uf for these motors, for mine the perfect value was .2uf. The difference in vibration and stability was not subtle, my Kuzma is about 3x more accurate than the SME 10 it replaced and is pretty much about as stable as a deck can get.

The Maxon motor has no more torque than the premotec, I owned a dc200 with advanced v7 on my LP12 and when using silicon fluid in the bearing the maxon ran considerably slower than the premotec when just dropped in on the same voltage as it was run with normal oil.

Adding thicker oil to the LP12 bearing adds viscous drag which loads the motor and flattens the magnetic field in the motor, all but eliminating cogging any giving the most rock solid pitch stability you'll ever hear. Try some 1000cwt its not a subtle improvement.

Have a quick search on flicker under my diyaudio user name. I have a whole load of day turntable speed stability stuff up there. If you're ever passing Sheffield you're welcome to call in.
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Old 25th March 2013, 04:59 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by sq225917 View Post
I run an lp12 bearing in my Kuzma Stabi/s with the standard premotec motor fed via simple 500va transformer, two 120v rails offset to exact 90 degree quadrature with a capacitor value that was trial and errored and measured again and again until the perfect value was arrived at. The standard value is .22uf for these motors, for mine the perfect value was .2uf. The difference in vibration and stability was not subtle, my Kuzma is about 3x more accurate than the SME 10 it replaced and is pretty much about as stable as a deck can get.

The Maxon motor has no more torque than the premotec, I owned a dc200 with advanced v7 on my LP12 and when using silicon fluid in the bearing the maxon ran considerably slower than the premotec when just dropped in on the same voltage as it was run with normal oil.

Adding thicker oil to the LP12 bearing adds viscous drag which loads the motor and flattens the magnetic field in the motor, all but eliminating cogging any giving the most rock solid pitch stability you'll ever hear. Try some 1000cwt its not a subtle improvement.

Have a quick search on flicker under my diyaudio user name. I have a whole load of day turntable speed stability stuff up there. If you're ever passing Sheffield you're welcome to call in.
I was just going by the improvements a lot of LP12 owners seem to say they get with an O/L & trying to figure out why it made no difference to mine at all. Freeing up the platter was like & day! To the point that even with all the problems I had, it makes my cheapo turntable a real steal for the price! I will definitely go through your threads later & see if can learn anything.
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Old 25th March 2013, 05:27 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Arckivio View Post
I was just going by the improvements a lot of LP12 owners seem to say they get with an O/L & trying to figure out why it made no difference to mine at all.
Are the stated improvements strictly speed related, or is there another component, like noise and vibration, which is a known issue with the LP12?

jeff
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Old 25th March 2013, 06:51 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by vinylkid58 View Post
Are the stated improvements strictly speed related, or is there another component, like noise and vibration, which is a known issue with the LP12?

jeff
Not really sure, I was just surprised it didn't improve on the tiny dc motor I was using. I thought that maybe loosening my platter had already made the improvement the O/L usually makes. Maybe I'm just on a downer about this self hyped, cheap kit box, photocopied instructioned worthless lump of snake oil!!!

If anyone knows what parts I could replace to at least make it a bit more worth it, please let me know.

Thanks to all, at least now I know to oil the motor accasionally.
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Old 26th March 2013, 12:20 AM   #17
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The OL Dc200 motor certainly ran with less noise/vibration on my lp12 than the premotec did on a Valhalla. Simple test, place needle on platter with motor running but no belt in place and then repeat with alternative motor. A simple A/D of the captured output from the cart shows the difference in noise coming from the motor. DC was quieter, by a few db.

Kuzma Stabi S/Stogi S 12" - a set on Flickr
LP12 /Kuzma turntable PSU - a set on Flickr
David's Hercules - a set on Flickr

A selection of LP12/AC motor stuff.
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Old 26th March 2013, 12:24 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by sq225917 View Post
The OL Dc200 motor certainly ran with less noise/vibration on my lp12 than the premotec did on a Valhalla. Simple test, place needle on platter with motor running but no belt in place and then repeat with alternative motor. A simple A/D of the captured output from the cart shows the difference in noise coming from the motor. DC was quieter, by a few db.

Kuzma Stabi S/Stogi S 12" - a set on Flickr
LP12 /Kuzma turntable PSU - a set on Flickr
David's Hercules - a set on Flickr

A selection of LP12/AC motor stuff.
SQ, if I could do a tenth of the electronics stuff you can do, I'd be a happy bunny & 240 richer!
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Old 26th March 2013, 04:41 PM   #19
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Quite possibly happier, but no richer. DIY is a black hole for money.

If you fancy giving a Naim Armageddon PSU clone a go I have a spare 500va 120v toroid. You'll need a 45 rpm pulley adaptor to get the higher speed but it's well worth a go and considerably less expensive than anything OL make.
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Old 26th March 2013, 06:07 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by sq225917 View Post
Quite possibly happier, but no richer. DIY is a black hole for money.

If you fancy giving a Naim Armageddon PSU clone a go I have a spare 500va 120v toroid. You'll need a 45 rpm pulley adaptor to get the higher speed but it's well worth a go and considerably less expensive than anything OL make.
A new kidney seems less expensive than what they make. Thanks for the offer SQ but finances dictate I have to stick with this for a while. I was actually in contact with the O/L guy about buying a new one but I could only afford the basic & that was no better than my original one.

He seemed quite keen to tell me over & over that the compensation in the advanced was very subtle!!! He knew I'd been on the forums! I will try to slow this one down again & make sure it does actually compensate.

If it doesn't I wish I'd bought it new so I could take it to trading standards. It's one thing to overprice a luxury but saying it does something it doesn't is different I think.
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