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Old 20th January 2013, 06:28 AM   #31
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Awesome!

Thanks for all the info. I'll keep my eyes open for a good deal on an RD250. Sounds like a good place to start as far as the arm is concerned.

I haven't had a chance to start working on the table yet unfortunately but I'm excited about working out the design and getting together the parts I need.
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Old 21st January 2013, 03:55 PM   #32
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default Elac turntables...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omniflic View Post
It looks like I'm going to pick up an old Elac Miracord III with an Idler Drive. From my limited research idler drives are able hold heavier platters and have good speed consistency. My plan is to use that as my starting point.
With just a little rework an Elac Mirachord is a fine table (so sez Jean Nantais of Lencoheaven fame). I have also used Dual 10XX and 12XX turntables as a starting point to very good effect. Speed consistency is mainly due to large, "torquey" AC induction motors and fairly heavy platters (although not Teres weight class). I am sure the Lencos are better, but where I am they command a high price if available.

Quote:
Can anyone recommend a suitable platter weight and material? I'm assuming something with less resonance would be better since the motor connects directly to the platter?
This is where things can get expensive. If an acrylic platter, then there are some available out there at pretty reasonable cost (about $100-$120 or so). With idlers there are a few things that you must consider:
  • The idler wheel itself must be in good shape (rubber rots). If not you may need to get a new one or have yours refurbished.
  • The idler wheel bushing and the bushing shaft must be in good shape or modified to accept a bearing.
  • If starting with a changer as the basis for a turntable, remove all the changer parts that are on the table.
  • All springs resonate, so remove all springs from the table, particularly those not in the tables suspension system.
  • Plinths can make all the difference. Use good materials to make it. Don't "cheap out" on the plinth or on any feet that you intend to use. Feet need not be expensive, but should be of a proven type. Something as simple as 3 speaker spikes can work well.
  • Rewire the electrical input so that a fuse can be used in it (many old idlers have no breaker or fuse in the AC input).
  • If possible reuse the existing arm for a while (you can always re-wire almost any tonearm). Learn how to set up a turntable. Then make a change to a Rega or whatever you choose, as funds permit.
  • Rega RB250 arms have been chosen to modify because they have 2 bearings for vertical movement rather than the RB300's one sided bearing. Spend the money or time and make or buy a high quality counter-weight. By the time you get a RB250 or similar, and modify it, you may end up spending your complete budget. Save some more and do the mods required: an improved counter-weight, arm re-wire, add a VTA adjustment scheme, add a metal rear stub if not so equipped. I've done a complete rewire , VTA, and structural mod to a RB250, including a counterweight upgrade. It does take the arm to near super-arm levels of performance.
  • If your floors are suspended (typical of most homes built in Canada), you will need a wall mounted turntable shelf if the floors have a lot of bounce to them.

Buying an existing good used table is something to consider as well. Check out all the local shops in Victoria and see if they have a Ariston RD11, or Heybrook TT1. both should be able to be had for $250-$300 all day long. Then start modifying it as funds permit. Either often came with very respectable arms. The VPI turntables will most likely be outside of your budget if an arm and cartridge are included.

Of course there are those out there who will promote a direct drive. There is nothing wrong with a well designed and robust design such as the Technics SP10/SP15/SP25 family (or the Sony PS-2150) but this level is very expensive and may blow your budget. Tecnics SL12XX models have proven to be very good, and very robust. There are numerous mods that can be done to these that can take them into "super-deck levels of performance. There are just So many. Also look at the Kenwood KD500, with or without arm.

If needing an arm, check with Planet10. I sent out some arm part "kits" to him for my DIY tonearm to be given away a few years ago at the Van Isle DIYaudio 'fest. If he has any, I'm sure you could get one.
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Last edited by Nanook; 21st January 2013 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 21st January 2013, 04:23 PM   #33
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default a quick check resulted in this...

Omniflic: have a look at this . Local and $20. If working, a bargain. No plinth and needing a headshell....you'd have enough in your budget to buy materials for a plinth and perhaps a used Rega arm. Says he has a few others as well. Not the 2 digit types (the 3 digit ones often had the 10" platter but that is not the end of the world)
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Old 23rd January 2013, 03:59 PM   #34
MrPig is offline MrPig  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanook View Post
  • Rega RB250 arms have been chosen to modify because they have 2 bearings for vertical movement rather than the RB300's one sided bearing.
I have lost count of the number of times that I've seen this said despite knowing for a fact that it's wrong so I took the trouble of asking Paul Darwin at Rega to clarify. Here is what he said:

"I can state categorically that ALL Rega arms are supported on two sides, confusion may come in because of the spring tracking but it is still supported on both sides."

ALL Rega arms have two bearings for horizontal movement and ALL Rega arms support the bearing shaft on both sides. I can't reach the whole internet but I hope that at least on this forum people can get this simple fact right at last.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 05:08 PM   #35
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default I stand corrected...

Mr Pig: I've rewired/hot-rodded a RB250 and took everyone at their word regarding the RB300. So apparently the RB250 is easier to modify.

Adding a tecno-weight, improved internal wiring, arm tube damping , and a VTA adjuster worked the charm. It happily lives on a Roksan Xerxes MkI.

Omniflic: Check out the $20 Miracord 50H at the link I posted.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 05:30 PM   #36
MrPig is offline MrPig  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanook View Post
I've rewired/hot-rodded a RB250 and took everyone at their word regarding the RB300. So apparently the RB250 is easier to modify.
Yes, it is. The RB300 is harder to take apart and put back together. Also, Rega typically don't supply their better arms or components to other companies for modification so the base-model RB250-type is all they can get their hands on. These reasons for using the RB250 don't look so good in the sales blurb though ;0)

There are actually quite a few ways in which the RB300 is better than the RB250. It uses better materials and parts and is built to tighter tolerances. Which might be why it cost more? Just a guess ;0)

If you're going to change everything about the arm anyway I don't think it matters much which arm you start with. Once modified there won't be much between them. All else being equal though I'd still rather have the 300, in fact I have two modified RB300s in use as we speak. If you're just going to do a few tweaks you're better off with the RB300 because it is the better arm.
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Old 8th September 2013, 07:00 PM   #37
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So I got busy and had to put this project on the back burner for awhile unfortunately. But I'm back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanook View Post
Omniflic: Check out the $20 Miracord 50H at the link I posted.
I called him after you posted the add and he'd just sold the miracords. Also thanks for the lengthy post there's a lot of good info in there for me to get started with.

About a week ago a PE 3012 came up for sale and I bought it at a good cheap price. I don't think it was ever used much and still sounds remarkably good. I haven't had a chance to open it up and check the status of the idler or anything but at the price I'm not too worried about it.

So I think I will use it as my starting point. There doesn't seem to be a lot of info floating around about this TT, but I did get the manuals from Vinyl Engine so that's a good start. Anybody know much about this TT?
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Old 11th September 2013, 10:21 AM   #38
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Hi, I am sorry Mr Pig you are wrong. the RB250 series is much better than the RB300/600/700 etc. Just because of the bearing arrangement. End of discussion.
Well nearly, one of the best arms in the world today is from Audiomod's. Yes it uses the RB250 as the base of it's arm.
However if one is looking for a excellent T/T with off board DC motor and Arm, and this is a 12 inch carbon Fibre arm. You should look at the items offered by TemaadAudio. You can buy a new 12inch arm kit for as little at US$135, It beats the pants off of anything under $1000.
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Old 21st September 2013, 10:56 PM   #39
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I was going to ask about TemaadAudio's stuff. The only RB250 I've been able to find was modded by TemaadAudio.

Does anybody know of an RB250 for sale?
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Old 23rd September 2013, 10:42 AM   #40
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Angry Just missed out

Hi, You just missed out as they sold a modded RB250 on Ebay last week.
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