Turntable - Getting Started

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Where is the power switch going to go?

An alternative might be acrylic. You can drill that yourself and it's far less resonant than glass. You can get it in lots of different thickness's and colours.

A laminate of different woods is a good idea. It'll be stronger and more stable. I've seen laminate platters too.

Were you planning on a dust cover? Have you got an arm in mind?

I think I'm going to put the power switch and speed controls on the front. Turn them into dials if I can manage.

I will probably end up using acrylic. Like you said glass is a pain to deal with.

Dust cover is something I'm not sure on yet. My house is very dusty unfortunately, but I don't like the look of them. I might try and do one like most, with a hinge that slides into a little slot.

No idea on the arm. Thought I might build one but haven't looked into it much yet.

Here's a diagram I just put together on my iPad of what I want it to look like. Minus the arm I don't care if its curved or straight.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    191.1 KB · Views: 249
Here's a diagram I just put together on my iPad

Gosh! Well, I hope you like it, because you'll never sell it! ;0) The more outlandish and 'personal' you make it the less likely it is that anyone else will like it. Not a problem, if you like the thing that's all that matters, as long as you're not bothered by other people's opinions.

I'd go for a Rega arm, one of the earlier ones with the large nut holding it on. Rega arms are without a doubt the best value high-performance tone-arms in the world, they are robust and plentiful. You can also upgrade them by modifying them and quite a few other arms share the same geometry. If you make a hole to suit a Rega arm you'll never need to make another top-plate in order to upgrade the arm.

If you want a hinged but removable lid, like the Linn LP12 lid, I'd make that the first thing you buy so that you can build the rest of the deck to fit it. You'll need to watch your platter thickness etc to make sure you retain clearance for the arms you want. The LP12 lid will take most 9" arms but not a 12" one. Or you could get a lid made to the size you want. The problem there, if you make it very big, is getting hinges that'll hold it up.

Why is it that people with Apple products feel the need to tell the world they have them? ;0) I didn't like Apple as a company and I think there products are over-priced, over-rated have very poor serviceability. So buying Apple is not a Brownie point in my book ;0)
 
homegrown TT

The enjoyment of building something and having it actually work is beyond belief.
You know you put every ounce of effort and here it is. Then there are always the tweeks. After you build it you find all kinds of things to tweek for improvement.
Having built the TT also lets you understand the record playing/tt building/pain and enjoyment easier.
You also build a bond with something mechanical and that is fun. It will occupy your mind endlessly.

Paul
 
The enjoyment of building something and having it actually work is beyond belief.

I would have said relief but I know what you mean! ;)

It will occupy your mind endlessly.

Especially when it doesn't work!

I also think there's a danger in DIY though. Because you've invested so much time and effort into something you can see, or hear it, through rose-tinted glasses. It might not actually work very well but you stick with it because you can't face having wasted so much time on something that's not right. Self-discipline there is hard but valuable.
 
The inexpensive Rega arm to go for would seem to be the RB-250

True there are loads of mods for them but most of the mods will also work on the RB300 and the RB300 is a better arm to start with. But you can typically get the RB250 cheaper, which makes sense if you're going to bin half of it anyway!

Another thing to watch is that not all RB250-type arms are the same. As everyone knows, Rega supplied these arms with many other companies badges on them. Most of them are just the same as the Rega-badged version, the Moth, Audio Origami, Michelle etc are all of the same quality as the Rega-badged product. Some were not though. Off the top of my head I know that the arms on Goldring turntables were not built to the same quality. The bearings were not matched and set to the same standard as the other arms for instance. Just something to bear in mind if buying one of these arms.
 
Administrator
Joined 2004
Paid Member
My understanding is that modified the RB-250 is a much better arm, and almost all of the available mods seem to be for that arm. Something about the way tracking force is applied and the arm bearing assembly. I've had an RB-301 - moved on to Schick and SME.. :D

Yes there are lots of rebadged Rega RB-250 arms with significant variations. I'd probably avoid the newer 251 and 301 if possible, I'm suspicious of the three point fixing scheme as opposed to the threaded tube and nut approach which I feel couples the arm much more effectively to the plinth.

I recommend this guy: audio mods Rega arm conversion kits and DIY mods
Have several friends with his arms or kits and all have been pleased.
 
My understanding is that modified the RB-250 is a much better arm

That's what most people think but I'm not convinced. See my arguments above! ;)

I'm suspicious of the three point fixing scheme as opposed to the threaded tube and nut approach

I agree. I've talked to Johnny/Audio Origami about this and he says the three-point fixing sounds better because it decouples the arm from the armboard a bit. But surely if you wanted to achieve that with the nut-fixing you could, you could fit plastic washers or something under the arm/nut. You've got the option. The plastic collar just looks like cost cutting to me. Plus I don't want to screw three wood screws into the top of my armboard.
 
Elac turntables...

It looks like I'm going to pick up an old Elac Miracord III with an Idler Drive. From my limited research idler drives are able hold heavier platters and have good speed consistency. My plan is to use that as my starting point.
With just a little rework an Elac Mirachord is a fine table (so sez Jean Nantais of Lencoheaven fame). I have also used Dual 10XX and 12XX turntables as a starting point to very good effect. Speed consistency is mainly due to large, "torquey" AC induction motors and fairly heavy platters (although not Teres weight class). I am sure the Lencos are better, but where I am they command a high price if available.

Can anyone recommend a suitable platter weight and material? I'm assuming something with less resonance would be better since the motor connects directly to the platter?
This is where things can get expensive. If an acrylic platter, then there are some available out there at pretty reasonable cost (about $100-$120 or so). With idlers there are a few things that you must consider:
  • The idler wheel itself must be in good shape (rubber rots). If not you may need to get a new one or have yours refurbished.
  • The idler wheel bushing and the bushing shaft must be in good shape or modified to accept a bearing.
  • If starting with a changer as the basis for a turntable, remove all the changer parts that are on the table.
  • All springs resonate, so remove all springs from the table, particularly those not in the tables suspension system.
  • Plinths can make all the difference. Use good materials to make it. Don't "cheap out" on the plinth or on any feet that you intend to use. Feet need not be expensive, but should be of a proven type. Something as simple as 3 speaker spikes can work well.
  • Rewire the electrical input so that a fuse can be used in it (many old idlers have no breaker or fuse in the AC input).
  • If possible reuse the existing arm for a while (you can always re-wire almost any tonearm). Learn how to set up a turntable. Then make a change to a Rega or whatever you choose, as funds permit.
  • Rega RB250 arms have been chosen to modify because they have 2 bearings for vertical movement rather than the RB300's one sided bearing. Spend the money or time and make or buy a high quality counter-weight. By the time you get a RB250 or similar, and modify it, you may end up spending your complete budget. Save some more and do the mods required: an improved counter-weight, arm re-wire, add a VTA adjustment scheme, add a metal rear stub if not so equipped. I've done a complete rewire , VTA, and structural mod to a RB250, including a counterweight upgrade. It does take the arm to near super-arm levels of performance.
  • If your floors are suspended (typical of most homes built in Canada), you will need a wall mounted turntable shelf if the floors have a lot of bounce to them.

Buying an existing good used table is something to consider as well. Check out all the local shops in Victoria and see if they have a Ariston RD11, or Heybrook TT1. both should be able to be had for $250-$300 all day long. Then start modifying it as funds permit. Either often came with very respectable arms. The VPI turntables will most likely be outside of your budget if an arm and cartridge are included.

Of course there are those out there who will promote a direct drive. There is nothing wrong with a well designed and robust design such as the Technics SP10/SP15/SP25 family (or the Sony PS-2150) but this level is very expensive and may blow your budget. Tecnics SL12XX models have proven to be very good, and very robust. There are numerous mods that can be done to these that can take them into "super-deck levels of performance. There are just So many. Also look at the Kenwood KD500, with or without arm.

If needing an arm, check with Planet10. I sent out some arm part "kits" to him for my DIY tonearm to be given away a few years ago at the Van Isle DIYaudio 'fest. If he has any, I'm sure you could get one.
 
Last edited:
a quick check resulted in this...

Omniflic: have a look at this . Local and $20. If working, a bargain. No plinth and needing a headshell....you'd have enough in your budget to buy materials for a plinth and perhaps a used Rega arm. Says he has a few others as well. Not the 2 digit types (the 3 digit ones often had the 10" platter but that is not the end of the world)
 
  • Rega RB250 arms have been chosen to modify because they have 2 bearings for vertical movement rather than the RB300's one sided bearing.

I have lost count of the number of times that I've seen this said despite knowing for a fact that it's wrong so I took the trouble of asking Paul Darwin at Rega to clarify. Here is what he said:

"I can state categorically that ALL Rega arms are supported on two sides, confusion may come in because of the spring tracking but it is still supported on both sides."

ALL Rega arms have two bearings for horizontal movement and ALL Rega arms support the bearing shaft on both sides. I can't reach the whole internet but I hope that at least on this forum people can get this simple fact right at last.
 
I stand corrected...

Mr Pig: I've rewired/hot-rodded a RB250 and took everyone at their word regarding the RB300. So apparently the RB250 is easier to modify.

Adding a tecno-weight, improved internal wiring, arm tube damping , and a VTA adjuster worked the charm. It happily lives on a Roksan Xerxes MkI.

Omniflic: Check out the $20 Miracord 50H at the link I posted.
 
I've rewired/hot-rodded a RB250 and took everyone at their word regarding the RB300. So apparently the RB250 is easier to modify.

Yes, it is. The RB300 is harder to take apart and put back together. Also, Rega typically don't supply their better arms or components to other companies for modification so the base-model RB250-type is all they can get their hands on. These reasons for using the RB250 don't look so good in the sales blurb though ;0)

There are actually quite a few ways in which the RB300 is better than the RB250. It uses better materials and parts and is built to tighter tolerances. Which might be why it cost more? Just a guess ;0)

If you're going to change everything about the arm anyway I don't think it matters much which arm you start with. Once modified there won't be much between them. All else being equal though I'd still rather have the 300, in fact I have two modified RB300s in use as we speak. If you're just going to do a few tweaks you're better off with the RB300 because it is the better arm.
 
So I got busy and had to put this project on the back burner for awhile unfortunately. But I'm back.

Omniflic: Check out the $20 Miracord 50H at the link I posted.

I called him after you posted the add and he'd just sold the miracords. Also thanks for the lengthy post there's a lot of good info in there for me to get started with.

About a week ago a PE 3012 came up for sale and I bought it at a good cheap price. I don't think it was ever used much and still sounds remarkably good. I haven't had a chance to open it up and check the status of the idler or anything but at the price I'm not too worried about it.

So I think I will use it as my starting point. There doesn't seem to be a lot of info floating around about this TT, but I did get the manuals from Vinyl Engine so that's a good start. Anybody know much about this TT?
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.