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Old 24th December 2012, 05:43 PM   #11
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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After all this washing it plays less aggressive and the distortion creeped to a less irritating level. I guess I moved the dirt another place. I would like to use a shop vac with some kind of adapter to get the dirt out...

well guys, thanks, I know now to wash vintage records properly before playing them or else the dirt is going to stick to it and do irreparable damage.
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Old 24th December 2012, 05:57 PM   #12
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Search for the countless threads here about diy record cleaners.. I built one years ago around the plinth and platter of a very cheap donated pioneer belt drive TT. Added some VPI record cleaner hardware purchased from elusive disc, a home brew catch bottle and an Oreck handheld cannister vacuum cleaner for the vacuum source. Works about as well as the real deal.

Cleaning fluid is a mix of 80% distilled water, 20% isopropyl alcohol [90% concentration], and a few drops of Kodak photo-flo as the wetting agent per 3.8L. Very effective and so far in a number of years not too hard on the records. (Note that a drop or two of organic dishing washing detergent also works well as a wetting agent in half liter to liter of water/alcohol solution.)

Apply with squirt bottle, use a VPI or similar bristle brush, really work it into the grooves and then vacuum it out. Follow with a second cycle if the disk is really dirty and a distilled water rinse and vacuum if you prefer. (I've mostly stopped doing the rinse part of the ritual.. )

I purchase most of my used records cheaply either on discogs, or musicstack from people who know how to care for and grade vinyl. I buy relatively less on the much pricier eBay, but generally also have few problems with vinyl purchased there.. New vinyl I get mostly from elusive or acoustic sounds..

All of this is played on one of two Thorens TD-124 with modern Ortofon SPU cartridges on Schick or SME arms.. I rarely find a CD of the same material that I like even as well as well worn vinyl.
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Old 24th December 2012, 05:58 PM   #13
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Helpful if you tell us a little bit about the turntable, cartridge and electronics you are using. Some of us might be able to provide more focused advice based on that information.
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Old 24th December 2012, 07:34 PM   #14
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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I use a new project xperience, with ortofon 2m Bronze.
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Old 24th December 2012, 08:57 PM   #15
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Comments of no practical help whatsoever, as I'm no expert; this is what my friend does; you choose:

Know the exact condition of the disc groove. Inspect, preferably with an electron microscope.

Befriend someone with one of the new optical archival record readers, and set it for an undamaged height on the groove wall. Unfortunately most commercial optical players are designed for real-time playing convenience rather than optimized for maximum data acquisition. A really good optical reader should read multiple groove heights and be able to dynamically identify damaged areas from undamaged, but those are expensive features or you have to try several adjustments on each record to find its optimium. A really good archival optical reader should have options for fast thruput versus a slower setting for accuracy. Transcribe directly to digital, and then process offline (not in real time) with software to identify and suppress impulses and apply adaptive EQ dynamically; at the least it eliminates noise in narrow bands where/when there is no in-band material. Then apply RIAA curve digitally. Evaluate and re-process. Then spend a few hundred hours editing critical parts manually; there is software that shows you each pop and tick and highlights out-of-band noise to let you decide how much musical detail to sacrifice.

All that might not get rid of treble distortion from groove damage.

Or wash, play, enjoy. Good luck and Merry Christmas. For a more practical approach, I find that different stylus shapes are more or less sensitive to damage from other stylus shapes. I've found sometimes a Shibata cut gem may play remaining undamaged portions of a clean groove that was previously damaged subtractively, even by a hyper-elliptical stylus that didn't get very deep into the groove. I've had good luck recovering stereo music with a CD-4 stylus meant to track very high frequencies; some wipe each of the groove walls with two contact points instead of one. Luckily the worst damage is often the result of a heavy tracking primitive round or elliptical non-compliant stylus shaving the treble off the higher portion of the groove, which might leave deeper playable or readable detailed areas the crummy stylus was unable to touch.

Sorry to give such a goofy answer.
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Old 5th January 2013, 05:55 AM   #16
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"high frequency clipping" sounds a lot like what you get when you try to send turntable outs into any old RCA audio input without first hitting an RIAA phono preamp.

My question for OP is, what is the record player outputs going into?
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Old 5th January 2013, 10:19 AM   #17
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Even a high output MM cartridge is unlikely to overload a line level input. However, if volume is then turned up to get enough mid range sound then output clipping is possible. The listener is likely to notice the lack of bass too!
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Old 6th January 2013, 11:21 PM   #18
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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What sort of phono pre-amplifier are you using with this turntable?Some relatively cheap ones don't cope well with ultrasonic overloads due to clicks and pops and in some rare cases may not handle magnetic cartridges with unusually high output levels well.

Are you positive that the arm is set up properly wrt to tracking force, anti-skating force, VTA if adjustable, and that the cartridge azimuth is OK? ( The stylus should not appear to be leaning to one side or the other - i.e. left to right..)
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Old 8th January 2013, 03:09 AM   #19
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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I think it is the records: turning at lower speed lowers the high pitched sound, music can be heard in the background and is not clipping, only high frequency, I would say ultrasounds as people over 50 cannot hear it.

Does anyone knows of some type of filler that can cover the groove and alter the ultrasonic frequency response?
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Old 8th January 2013, 04:55 PM   #20
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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No clue what you are asking about..

However you might consider a cartridge with better tracking ability.. Verify that things are set up correctly..

What are you using for a phono pre-amplifier. are you sure that it is not experiencing ultrasonic overload as I mentioned in a previous post.

Some used records were just played with cartridges and stylii that were incapable of properly tracking the HF modulations, the damage is permanent, however some stylus geometries may or may not provide better playback by virtue of their profile contacting less damaged areas of the groove.
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