Denon DL-103 and 103R

[a.wayne]

Is it worth the step up from the DL 110 to the 103, ...I'm also a bit concerned about the very low output of the 103 ...

[vinylkid58]

Originally Posted by a.wayne

Is it worth the step up from the DL 110 to the 103, ...I'm also a bit concerned about the very low output of the 103 ...

IMHO, bypass the 103 and go for the 103R "if" you have a heavy-ish arm, or you have the ability to add mass to your existing arm. You may need a SUT, like the CineMag 3340's.

jeff

[scott wurcer]

Originally Posted by a.wayne

Is it worth the step up from the DL 110 to the 103, ...I'm also a bit concerned about the very low output of the 103 ...

We discussed adding tone arm weights somewhere in the BT thread (good luck). I think the lead tape they sell to tweak golf clubs would work here.

[bear]

Well now, these "upgrades" where they "replace" the cantilever, is it not true that what is really going on is that *everything* except for the case and the magnetic motor assembly is being replaced? Nothing remains of the old coils, damper ring, cantilever and tip, and that piano wire suspension thingie??

I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, just that there's really little resemblance between the old and new.

Too bad there is no way to just replace the cantilever alone...

_-_-bear

PS. speaking of which, one USA rebuilder <name withheld> whose rebuilds friends have acquired when measured all seem to have a freq response peak above 10Khz. The peak appears to have a slope of about 12dB/oct going up. This means that it is unlikely that a simple capacitive loading will yield a flat response. Most users of this rebuilders work are unaware of this (apparently) and few users are sophisticated enough to even know about capacitive loading of phono cartridges as an option, or to have done it, or have the preamp with this available.

something to think about...

[scott wurcer]

Originally Posted by bear

PS. speaking of which, one USA rebuilder <name withheld> whose rebuilds friends have acquired when measured all seem to have a freq response peak above 10Khz. The peak appears to have a slope of about 12dB/oct going up. This means that it is unlikely that a simple capacitive loading will yield a flat response. Most users of this rebuilders work are unaware of this (apparently) and few users are sophisticated enough to even know about capacitive loading of phono cartridges as an option, or to have done it, or have the preamp with this available.

something to think about...

I'm confused, I thought it was an MC cart with a LOT less L and R to work against the C???

[bear]

scott-tay,

the HF rise is/was unambiguous.


I presumed some sort of resonance...

_-_-bear


PS. also present in the "new" offerings from the same vendor (fyi).

[a.wayne]

103r vs goldring , any comments .....

[kevinkr]

Originally Posted by bear

Well now, these "upgrades" where they "replace" the cantilever, is it not true that what is really going on is that *everything* except for the case and the magnetic motor assembly is being replaced? Nothing remains of the old coils, damper ring, cantilever and tip, and that piano wire suspension thingie??

I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, just that there's really little resemblance between the old and new.

Too bad there is no way to just replace the cantilever alone...
<snip>
_-_-bear

The ones I have seen all had the original generator assembly, damper ring, etc. - the only thing replaced was the cantilever and stylus which is generally glued into the the end of the old one which is cut somewhere near the mounting bushing.

FWIW as a long time user of LOMC cartridges including SPU and DL-103 one tames the HF resonance by varying the loading R, capacitance is generally ineffective. A number of people I know use rebuilt DL-103 loaded into a couple of hundred ohms and have not observed unusually large resonances in the pass band. (They have the hardware and motivation to make measurements)

[scott wurcer]

Originally Posted by bear

scott-tay,

the HF rise is/was unambiguous.


I presumed some sort of resonance...

_-_-bear


PS. also present in the "new" offerings from the same vendor (fyi).

I meant cap loading won't help in this case as in MM. Not exactly the same mechanisms at work here.

[scott wurcer]

Originally Posted by kevinkr

FWIW as a long time user of LOMC cartridges including SPU and DL-103 one tames the HF resonance by varying the loading R, capacitance is generally ineffective. A number of people I know use rebuilt DL-103 loaded into a couple of hundred ohms and have not observed unusually large resonances in the pass band. (They have the hardware and motivation to make measurements)

Any input on the spherical stylus vs other profiles? The articles mentioned were fairly compelling, naming several majors that used the predistortion. I myself have not been able to measure any difference using various test records including ones that put the test signals directly into the lathe recording electronics.