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Old 25th November 2012, 12:20 PM   #21
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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How is the 103r vs 103 and has anyone listened to the DL110..?
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Old 25th November 2012, 01:05 PM   #22
rongon is offline rongon  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
How is the 103r vs 103 and has anyone listened to the DL110..?
I had a Denon DL103 years ago and really did like it. But... I gave up on it because I never had a truly good step-up transformer. I've never had a 103R, so can't comment on that.

A few years ago, I got a Denon DL110 and I'm still using it. It's surprisingly good. Not quite up to DL103 standards. I think it might be a little less smooth mids/highs. But for the money, it plays way better than any Grado I had, even a white Signature.

I run my DL110 into a 1k ohm load, not the 47k recommended by Denon. The DL110 sounds pretty harsh into a 47k ohm load. Published output Z is 160 ohms, so 1k5 ohms load should be about perfect.

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Old 25th November 2012, 01:56 PM   #23
6L6 is offline 6L6  United States
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I am currently using a DL-110 in one of my tabels, and I am very pleased. It has no major flaws or complaints, and is very musical. In the way that it makes you enjoy the music and forget about the hifi. I like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rongon
I run my DL110 into a 1k ohm load, not the 47k recommended by Denon. The DL110 sounds pretty harsh into a 47k ohm load. Published output Z is 160 ohms, so 1k5 ohms load should be about perfect.
I have not yet experimented with loading, I will give it a try.
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Old 25th November 2012, 03:39 PM   #24
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Thanks for the pics!



Well, you know that this is against the original construction of the 103? The 103 was originally developed to allow some tracking distortion cancellation by an optimum combination of a spherical diamond and generator. In case you read german, there are very insightfull articles of Reto L. Andreoli who goes a bit into detail!

PS: therefore, I would also expect the 103R to be more than simply adding a new elliptical diamond (beyond the fancy coils etc.) to the stock 103.
You are quite right. there has been quite a bit of discussion here and elsewhere concerning the poorly documented fact that many LP's were recorded so that a spherical stylus was optimum. If folks only apprised themselves of how much distortion of all kinds LP reproduction can withstand.
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Old 25th November 2012, 03:42 PM   #25
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Thanks guys, funny I'm thinking of replacing my grado with the DL 110 on this particular table , i will experiment with the loading as suggested by rongon , by the way, what are you guys using for a phono pre ....?
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Old 25th November 2012, 04:50 PM   #26
6L6 is offline 6L6  United States
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My understanding of the DL-103R is that it also has a softer suspension making it a bit more compatible with modern (I.E., lower mass) tonearms.

a.wayne -- I am using a PassDIY (Wayne Colburn) Pearl and Pearl 2. I also have an Elliott Sound Products Project 06 RIAA amp as well as a Nakamichi CA-7ii. The Pearls are by far my favorite.
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Old 25th November 2012, 08:07 PM   #27
vencel is offline vencel  Hungary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UV101 View Post
Define "very expensive cartridges"?????

The rather expensive rebuild I had done on a brand new 103 would put some expensive cartridges to shame!!!!
I think it would not be correct to mention any brands here :-) and this is only my experience.
I can however assure you that it will not be better than a Koetsu Rosewood or Kondp Io or any cartridge with a good AlNiCo magnet and boron cantilever.
The Denon is a very good cartridge for the money, it is worth improving but since it does not have an AlNiCo magnet, it will never become the best in the world :-)
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Old 25th November 2012, 08:09 PM   #28
vencel is offline vencel  Hungary
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Old 25th November 2012, 08:17 PM   #29
vencel is offline vencel  Hungary
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Originally Posted by murphythecat8 View Post
okay, and how expensive it is? you way that they then perform much better? I have two here, glad that for about the same price, I can reuse them and have a better cart.
Most of the repair companies are advising ruby cantilever as boron cantilevers are very hard to source.
I think all companies will ask you to send your cartridge for inspection (I do the same) and after the inspection you'll get a quote for servicing it.
As I mentioned earlier the DL-103 cartridges are very tough. I have not yet seen any with broken coil even though the cantilever received such a big shock that it broke off. What you have to take into account is that the tensioning wire can get deformed and it is not easy to change it without damaging the coil. If the coil is damaged then it needs a new coil and the is expensive.
Certainly when a new coil is winded the owner can chose an output impedance as well as the material of the wire. If the service company has for example silver wire that could be an upgrade as well.
Also there are differences in the copper wire: 4N, 5N or 6N, OCC or not.
Besides the price also take into account the waiting time.
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Old 25th November 2012, 09:14 PM   #30
UV101 is offline UV101  England
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All I can tell you is that I have had several 103 cartridges. My 1st was a grey bodied std back in the 80s

The esco versions of the grey and the recent black cart are not subtle upgrades. If you have £1000 to spend, A 103 plus mods will see off 1000 cart for sure
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