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Old 2nd October 2012, 05:33 PM   #21
sonidos is offline sonidos  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
It was inconclusive since the LAST side seemed less noisey but sounded thinner.
Scott, that has been my impression too.

SY, that would be great. 5 seconds under the scope and then we can go right to discussing food and live music talk!
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Old 4th October 2012, 06:18 AM   #22
h_a is offline h_a  Europe
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Quote:
Riders on the storm
Maybe I'm the lucky exception but I find that most of my vinyl is very silent. In particular with my new phono stage design, I hear now and then when the tape machine is turned off
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Old 4th October 2012, 12:34 PM   #23
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SY, what does the water do?

Years and years ago I noticed that a record that was otherwise rather noisy (due to age, dirt, scratches - remember them? -) seemed to sound better when misted with some water.

I always wanted some of whatever externally applied mold release was used at the factory (if any was) to spray on records after I got them... new always sounds best.

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Old 4th October 2012, 12:52 PM   #24
SY is offline SY  United States
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It's the wet playing that does something. I haven't investigated the cause yet, but it absolutely ruined some of my discs (horribly noisy when played dry afterward, no amount of cleaning fixed it). Heard the same from other users of the wet-play system.

Now that I have access to an SEM again, I may revisit this.
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Old 4th October 2012, 10:49 PM   #25
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
A few points:

1. From the videos I’ve seen (one of them below), the release has to be internal.
How It's Made - Vinyl Records - YouTube

I’ve read accusations for water-alcohol mixture (used to clean records) that it dissolves this self lubricant and dries-out vinyl surface , increasing playback noise. Any comments on that?

3. After you will analyse it, will you be able to trace the way it works on vinyl?

6. Can you remember if the material was vinyl (and not polystyrene)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
I did a one side LAST one side no LAST and was careful to always play both sides over almost 20yr
Scott, can you check if there is a noticeable difference of static electric charge between the two sides of this LP? You don’t have to use a surface charge meter, just some very small pieces of paper, or some long fiber (e.g. hair).

The thinner sound you mention, “smells” surface hardening.

George
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Old 5th October 2012, 12:04 AM   #26
SY is offline SY  United States
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I'd be more worried about the alcohol leaching out the plasticizers, making the material more brittle. And yes, if I know what's in it, I can tell you what it does. I have some suspicions, none of which involve hardening, but data is better.

Definitely vinyl!
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Old 5th October 2012, 12:33 AM   #27
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Composition for Phonograph Record Preservation
A composition suitable for preserving vinyl phonograph records was prepared as follows:

Fomblin.RTM. Y25/6 (Montefluos, Milan, Italy) was mixed with Fluorinert.RTM. FC-40 (3M, St. Paul, Minn.), and the mixture dissolved in PF5060 (3M), to a final composition of Fomblin.RTM. Y25/6=0.1 v %, Fluorinert.RTM. FC-40=0.5 v %, PF5060=99.4 v %. The resulting formulation was filtered through a 0.2 .mu.m filter, and dispensed into a glass, air-tight bottle and sealed.

No assignee is listed that I could see, but one of the inventors lives in Livermore where last is headquartered. The chemical trade names are defined in The description. Interestingly, the record preservative is exemplified in the Examples section, but is not specifically claimed. The mix seems to be mostly per fluorinated hydrocarbons and polyethers. And an alkylated hexynol.

Last edited by Sweetsweetback; 5th October 2012 at 12:35 AM. Reason: Bad typing! Bad autocorrect
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Old 5th October 2012, 07:18 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by RNMarsh View Post
All your questions can be answered by contacting the LAST factory in Livermore, California. A slightly different forlumation has been applied to tape recorder heads with similar wear reduction. It is not a new product but since so many people still play with LP's, I think it is something all should try and use. I still have some left over before I sold all my LP's a few years ago. A life times collection. But I am not sorry i did that.

And, again, NO it isnt a coating that comes off and gums up the stylus.

It is what i said it is. YOU need to check into it and get the use of it. Its a small family operation and never had the funds to go big. But if you want to preserve your records, you need it. I am not here to convince you of anything but to inform you.

See: www.lastfactory.com

Thx - Richard
Thank you for your answer.

I still have one bottle of LAST record preservative and two bottles of record cleaner. I did no more use that stuff after treating a few records with that stuff.
The record cleaner works good, but here they asked 35$ for 2 fluid ounces, thats mad. Since then i use a VPI cleaning machine with standard cleaning liquids with good success.

The preservative made the sound bright, thats why i did not like it.
I assume this happened due the*hardening* of the surface and gives a stronger resonance behaviour in the 20 Khz area.

So i put that stuff aside until now.

I assume LAST uses Fluor somehow in its formula. That would explain why it cleaned pretty good, but i have been told that it is not ideal for health and enviroment?

I would be willing to donate my LAST to SY for Analysis, but im living in europe, so the effort would be pretty high to send it over.
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Old 5th October 2012, 10:17 AM   #29
SY is offline SY  United States
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If sweet's patent find actually represents Last, it is indeed a lubricant and would not harden the surface.
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Old 5th October 2012, 01:40 PM   #30
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for those of us, like me, who have no clue about most details in chemistry:

"Organofluorine compounds enjoy many niche applications in materials science. With a low coefficient of friction, fluid fluoropolymers are used as specialty lubricants. Fluorocarbon-based greases are used in demanding applications. Representative products include Fomblin and Krytox, manufactured by Solvay Solexis and DuPont, respectively. " (wikipedia)

"PFPE (Perfluoropolyether) Sold by DuPont under the tradename Krytox.[17] Sold by Solvay Solexis S.p.A. as Fomblin and Galden"

(wikipedia)

I am wondering about the coating on the record... mechanical spray pump aerosol, how do the record grooves all get coated? does the stylus move the stuff about? Or does this stuff try to self level and run around? And, does it ever harden, and/or does it thicken and create any height above the groove?

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