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Old 20th March 2013, 11:50 AM   #51
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Crapy scope I do not trust it
0.05V div
0.5V div on 3 rd
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File Type: jpg Noise 001.jpg (973.0 KB, 223 views)
File Type: jpg Noise 002.jpg (981.9 KB, 211 views)
File Type: jpg Noise 003.jpg (983.7 KB, 197 views)
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Old 20th March 2013, 01:36 PM   #52
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Sandro thanks for the cross test on scoping the rails. I get the same weird hash on RIGOL DSO and CRT Hameg too. Maybe bit less in amplitude but still too much. But it does not jump in the signal FFT as high hiss. Maybe EMI on the ground plane or something, don't know. Its not a special bug with the Toshiba semis I used in the PSU at least since it cross checks with your build too.
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Old 20th March 2013, 04:02 PM   #53
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I am going to try the Toshibas on the R2 Boards and see.
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Old 20th March 2013, 04:12 PM   #54
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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There must be something noisy in the Vref (LEDS) or its the error amp's CCS (J310). The LEDS have some 100uF cap and there is an RC filter though. Weird. Others must scope the rails to see too.
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Old 20th March 2013, 04:47 PM   #55
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Compare with the 3rd picture
Toshibas make big difference.
Not tried the capacitors changes

Maybe Frans could help?
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Old 20th March 2013, 06:31 PM   #56
FdW is offline FdW  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bksabath View Post
Compare with the 3rd picture
Toshibas make big difference.
Not tried the capacitors changes

Maybe Frans could help?
I'm trying (Salas and I have exchanged a lot of mails today). But it is not definitely clear what the problem is. For sure you need to use fast (D44/D45H11 of faster) power transistors, when using slower transistors the PSU must be compensated and performance is (slightly) compromised. Current knowledge shows that the (small amount of) noise not enters the RIAA and thus, the PSU is as clean as needed (and cleaner than most ).

My own examinations of today show me that the J310 may be marginal and later I will publish some data on this, and guidance on how to improve the situation. It is, at this moment, not clear if the measured noise is caused by using the J310 but for sure there are better fitting, for the application, FET’s available.

P.s. That will be posted in the Paradise Builders forum.


These are the most important/relevant messages regarding PSU and Pre-Reg.
  1. Mpp #4375 PSU-pre-regulator.
  2. Mpp #4610 V2 Schemas UPS and Amp.
  3. Mpp #6506 CCS fine-tuning.
  4. Mpp #6462 PSU with my notes.
  5. Mpp #6809 Do not try to feed the CVS of the CCS of the shunt with a regulated power supply.
  6. Mpp #7127 More about transformer selection.
  7. Mpp #7635 Single and dual transformer wiring (also corrected drawing) (See also #7733).
  8. Mpp #7733 Grounding (PSU, RIAA and Player).
  9. Mpp #7810 35V PSU for the CroMagnon.
  10. Mpp #7830 The PSU explained.
  11. Mpp #8386 My resistor recommendation’s.
  12. My Paradise #56 PSU Noise.
  13. PradiseBuilders #13 Schema's and assembly guide.
  14. PradiseBuilders #155 Vdc input voltage minimum simulated.
  15. PradiseBuilders #970 PSU oscillates; posible solutions?
  16. PradiseBuilders #983 Compensating the PSU for oscillations.
  17. PradiseBuilders #1173 Fixing oscillations (up to #1182).
  18. PradiseBuilders #1322 Fuse .
  19. PradiseBuilders #1387 Updated Paradise R3 assembly guide (Also German).
  20. PradiseBuilders #1403 Capacitors bad vs good.
  21. PradiseBuilders #1593 PSU Power Transistor selection.
  22. PradiseBuilders #1644 PSU Output Impedance.
  23. PradiseBuilders #1680 PSU Power Supply Suppression Ratio(PSSR).
Have a look at these and their following messages.

Last edited by FdW; 20th March 2013 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 20th March 2013, 07:28 PM   #57
Siberia is offline Siberia  Lithuania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bksabath View Post

Crapy scope I do not trust it
Crapy? I was thinking of getting a same unit.
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Old 20th March 2013, 08:26 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberia View Post
Crapy? I was thinking of getting a same unit.
It is worth spending a bit more if you can if not you stuck with somthink you may not like and regret it.

The one I got is from Rapid at £245
20MHz Analogue oscilloscope/1MHz function generator

But i wish I had one of those instead
OWON SDS6062 Digital Oscilloscope with Logic analyzer 60MHz 2 Channels
Buy Digital Oscilloscopes RSCAL(7545519) Oscilloscope,50Mhz,2Ch ISO-TECH IDS6052-U online from RS for next day delivery.
Buy Digital Oscilloscopes Oscilloscope,50Mhz,2Ch ISO-TECH IDS6052-U online from RS for next day delivery.

Those have same math functions that I wuld realy like and I am prety shure you could find better price than RS

Bat it all depends on how much you are going to use it.
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Old 20th March 2013, 08:32 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FdW View Post
I'm trying (Salas and I have exchanged a lot of mails today). But it is not definitely clear what the problem is. For sure you need to use fast (D44/D45H11 of faster) power transistors, when using slower transistors the PSU must be compensated and performance is (slightly) compromised. Current knowledge shows that the (small amount of) noise not enters the RIAA and thus, the PSU is as clean as needed (and cleaner than most ).

My own examinations of today show me that the J310 may be marginal and later I will publish some data on this, and guidance on how to improve the situation. It is, at this moment, not clear if the measured noise is caused by using the J310 but for sure there are better fitting, for the application, FETís available.

.
Tanks for posting Frans.
Your dedication to this project is commendable and duly noted

Any suggestion is welcome and I be happy to do the hard work
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Old 20th March 2013, 10:32 PM   #60
FdW is offline FdW  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bksabath View Post
Tanks for posting Frans.
Your dedication to this project is commendable and duly noted

Any suggestion is welcome and I be happy to do the hard work
The post has been done
Paradise Builders
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