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Old 25th September 2012, 05:04 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCruz View Post
So to avoid the big EL you want to use lower gain.... That is a very good reason.

I never used a split riaa because using one more amplifying stage I would invert signal (because I use SE single transistor amplifiers).

Thank you for your input Stefanoo.... can you post a finer pic ?
Thank you very much for your comment.
In attachement the schematic for the balance MasterPiece and the Balance Paradise.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf MasterPiece-R1.pdf (40.3 KB, 74 views)
File Type: pdf PARADISE_BALANCED.pdf (42.8 KB, 59 views)
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Old 25th September 2012, 05:05 PM   #32
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Using non standard cap values for the riaa is not a problem as we can always (and I always do) build the most acurate possible with parallel combinations.

Removing the bootstrap caps seems a very logical thing to do also (we are using servos to eliminate coupling caps so we should also avoid the EL in the signal path)

What should be the max possible gain with this last schematic without the EL caps ?
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Old 25th September 2012, 05:10 PM   #33
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Thank you very much for your comment.
In attachement the schematic for the balance MasterPiece and the Balance Paradise.
Thank you so much

They seem quite similar apart from more trannies on the input....

Care to comment on your choices ?
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Old 25th September 2012, 05:12 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCruz View Post
Using non standard cap values for the riaa is not a problem as we can always (and I always do) build the most acurate possible with parallel combinations.

Removing the bootstrap caps seems a very logical thing to do also (we are using servos to eliminate coupling caps so we should also avoid the EL in the signal path)

What should be the max possible gain with this last schematic without the EL caps ?

I think you get to a low 45dB or something without EL cap.

Rember one thing, paralleling caps on the RIAA is not going to be ideal solution.
Best would be to have 1 cap.
Especially paralleling is often done with different values and that yealds to the worse result.
I am just sharing information I had talking to a person who is on the capacitor's manufacturing for audio.
I also experimented with that and it only confirmed his words.
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Old 25th September 2012, 05:14 PM   #35
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What is the gain difference between the paradise balanced and the masterpiece you posted in pdf ?

Maybe we could use a 45db and a SUT... that would go to around 70db
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Old 25th September 2012, 05:16 PM   #36
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Thank you so much

They seem quite similar apart from more trannies on the input....

Care to comment on your choices ?
yes, on the one gain approach, you need as muich gain as possible to get up to 62dB and mantaining the same network for the RIAA.
Also since all the Trans-RIAA is going to be there, you also need more current capabilities on both FE and VAS stage to drive it at high frequency.
On the other hand, also experimented with this, if from one side you get more benefit by paralleling more JFETs in terms of a bit darker background, from a sound standpoint, 4 paralled trannies yeald to a duller sound than a pair in front with a tad more degeneration and more gain distribution.

I have accumulated several years of experience in phono design and listened to a lot of solution and I would like to share the little knowledge I have and join it with the "monsters" here to create something top notch if possible and if people are interested and it is a honor for me to have Joachim join us as soon as he is back from his trip.
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Old 25th September 2012, 05:18 PM   #37
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What is the gain difference between the paradise balanced and the masterpiece you posted in pdf ?

Maybe we could use a 45db and a SUT... that would go to around 70db
something I haven't experienced with is SUT. I firmly believe that there shouldn't be any EL of Film cap on the signal path and especially not a transformer on it.
this is just my personal thought.
There is no difference in gain between the SE and BAL paradise except that you get 6 more dB on balance which equals the SE on the straight Paradise design.
So for instance if Paradise has 62dB gain @1KHz, the BAL will have 56sB SE and 62dB BAL.
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Old 25th September 2012, 05:26 PM   #38
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The circuit in post 1 will not work. I assume you have found out yourself because i see changes have being made in post 30.
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Old 25th September 2012, 05:32 PM   #39
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yes, thanks Joachim.

Do you have any input as far as the circuit is concerned?
What do you think about having 2 gain stage with split RIAA, does it yeald to benefits in your experience?
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Old 25th September 2012, 05:42 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefanoo View Post
I think you get to a low 45dB or something without EL cap.

Rember one thing, paralleling caps on the RIAA is not going to be ideal solution.
Best would be to have 1 cap.
Especially paralleling is often done with different values and that yealds to the worse result.
I am just sharing information I had talking to a person who is on the capacitor's manufacturing for audio.
I also experimented with that and it only confirmed his words.
Maybe not the ideal solution but when you can not "trim" your caps by unwinding them, it is much better than using only aproximate values for the riaa calculated values.
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